On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:48:00 -0500, Susan wrote: > x-no-archive: yes
> Richard wrote:
>> 34 years old, 5' 11", 148 lb, in shape (I run) and my "large" meals >> are actually small in comparison to what most people would consider >> large. Large to me is eating a full sandwich with a serving of beans. >> Or clearing my plate with two chicken legs and a serving of green >> beans. Normally I eat like a mouse. Why my blood pressure shot up to >> 200/105 seemed to have something to do with an endocrine problem. I >> have a thyroid condition that is being treated as well. My >> endocrinologist communicated this to my cariologist and because this >> endocrine thing had something to do with adrenaline, he decided the >> best thing for me was a beta blocker. I just wish they could fix the >> root problem instead of giving me beta blockers. Again, my dad had >> type 2.. he stubbed his toe and didn't have a tetanus shot. But >> otherwise he was managing it well.. I would just hate to have the beta >> blockers push me into getting T2 at a younger age and I would rather >> not have T2 at all.
> You're absolutely correct in thinking that the underlying problem, > whether hyperaldosteronism or other adrenal condition (hormone secreting > adrenal nodule or tumor) should be addressed and treated, not papered > over long term with medication.
> Have you had adrenal C-T imaging with contrast? Have you had serum, > saliva and urinary testing to see what your levels of both bound and > free hormones are circulating?
> Those are things I'd ask for, and I'd find an endo whose interest in > your long term health runs deeper than writing an rx that you may need > for the short term, without making a plan to find out WHY you're having > the problem.
> Susan
We know why he is having the problem (overconsumption), why run a bunch of tests for a known answer (don't overconsume).
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:17:18 -0600, Michael wrote: > Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe > diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it > elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
> The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more. > Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are > different for everyone.
Point being, once you have found that overconsuming food in general or foods in particular, don't overconsume.
Again, the basis for the 2 PD Diet. Don't overconsume.
> Not necessarily. Just because they are on meds does not mean they have > failed with diet with T2 diabetes control. IME T2 diabetics on meds have > failed to control their T2 *because* they have failed at calorie > counting, commercially oriented book diets such as Atkins.
> You know this and you are being *BOVine*, as usual, and disingenuous, as > usual.
This discussion is a bit like. A cat is an animal with whiskers and a tail, and what your trying to tell me now is that every animal with a tail and whiskers is therefore .... a cat. No, you could also be dealing with a 400 pound roaring tiger trying to grab you, which is certainly a different situation than the average house cat in your room.
Reversal leads to confusion and erroneous conclusions.
There are type-2's who need meds AND a diet AND insulin to get their BG under control.
The only criterion for being is type 2 is that your insulin production is too inefficient compared to a healthy person. There may be a variety of reasons why type 2 develops, obesity is one of them.
There are also plenty of obese people who will never develop a cardiac problem, diabetes or whatever disease you had in mind. Churchill was one of them.
If you become a type-1 then there is no insulin production at all, and then it needs to be injected with a syringe. Medically seen this is the only difference between type 1 and type 2.
Q
-- Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail me now!
>> Not necessarily. Just because they are on meds does not mean they have >> failed with diet with T2 diabetes control. IME T2 diabetics on meds have >> failed to control their T2 *because* they have failed at calorie >> counting, commercially oriented book diets such as Atkins.
>> You know this and you are being *BOVine*, as usual, and disingenuous, as >> usual.
> This discussion is a bit like. A cat is an animal with whiskers and a > tail, and what your trying to tell me now is that every animal with a > tail and whiskers is therefore .... a cat. No, you could also be dealing > with a 400 pound roaring tiger trying to grab you, which is certainly a > different situation than the average house cat in your room.
Your mind works in some unknown Universe, I never intimated anything as such.
> Reversal leads to confusion and erroneous conclusions.
> There are type-2's who need meds AND a diet AND insulin to get their BG > under control.
NSS.
> The only criterion for being is type 2 is that your insulin production > is too inefficient compared to a healthy person. There may be a variety > of reasons why type 2 develops, obesity is one of them.
NSS.
> There are also plenty of obese people who will never develop a cardiac > problem, diabetes or whatever disease you had in mind. Churchill was one > of them.
Any others? Fascinating stuff.
> If you become a type-1 then there is no insulin production at all, and > then it needs to be injected with a syringe. Medically seen this is the > only difference between type 1 and type 2.
MU wrote: > On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:17:18 -0600, Michael wrote:
>> Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe >> diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it >> elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
>> The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more. >> Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are >> different for everyone.
> Point being, once you have found that overconsuming food in general or > foods in particular, don't overconsume.
> Again, the basis for the 2 PD Diet. Don't overconsume.
@MU: how about some fact finding before you show your face again in this newsgroup. You clearly talk non-sense and know nothing about diabetes.
Q
-- Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail me now!
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 12:26:00 -0600, BDR529 wrote (in article <4af1c73f$0$83237$e4fe5...@news.xs4all.nl>):
> MoSn wrote: >> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 08:01:26 -0600, MU wrote >> (in article <hcs1fm$em...@news.eternal-september.org>):
>>> Should Type 2 diabetics not maintain healthy weight? That's what the 2PD >>> OMER is about.
>> So two pounds of chocolate a day for a diabetic is good?
> The answer to that question is no, as a type II you should moderate the > intake of carbohydrates over the day. And chocolate contains a lot of > fast carbs like sugar.
Agree the answer to two pounds of chocolate is not good.
> Richard wrote: > > 34 years old, 5' 11", 148 lb, in shape (I run) and my "large" meals > > are actually small in comparison to what most people would consider > > large. Large to me is eating a full sandwich with a serving of beans. > > Or clearing my plate with two chicken legs and a serving of green > > beans. Normally I eat like a mouse. Why my blood pressure shot up to > > 200/105 seemed to have something to do with an endocrine problem. I > > have a thyroid condition that is being treated as well. My > > endocrinologist communicated this to my cariologist and because this > > endocrine thing had something to do with adrenaline, he decided the > > best thing for me was a beta blocker. I just wish they could fix the > > root problem instead of giving me beta blockers. Again, my dad had > > type 2.. he stubbed his toe and didn't have a tetanus shot. But > > otherwise he was managing it well.. I would just hate to have the beta > > blockers push me into getting T2 at a younger age and I would rather > > not have T2 at all.
> You're absolutely correct in thinking that the underlying problem, > whether hyperaldosteronism or other adrenal condition (hormone secreting > adrenal nodule or tumor) should be addressed and treated, not papered > over long term with medication.
> Have you had adrenal C-T imaging with contrast? Have you had serum, > saliva and urinary testing to see what your levels of both bound and > free hormones are circulating?
> Those are things I'd ask for, and I'd find an endo whose interest in > your long term health runs deeper than writing an rx that you may need > for the short term, without making a plan to find out WHY you're having > the problem.
> Susan- Hide quoted text -
> - Show quoted text -
That was the first thing they looked for at the mayo clinic I had a CT and two MRIs of my adrenals and brain/pitutary, catecholemine/adrenal blood tests, challege tests, all normal. Except my cortisol goes high in the morning and low in the evening - they wrote that off to anxiety.
> You have a tough time answering direct questions, why is that?
I wonder if you are having "a tough time" providing citations from the established medical journals about the two pound diet you advocate since you have not done that. Sometimes a non-response is louder and clearer than a response.
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:02:40 +0100, BDR529 wrote: > MU wrote: >> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:17:18 -0600, Michael wrote:
>>> Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe >>> diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it >>> elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
>>> The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more. >>> Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are >>> different for everyone.
>> Point being, once you have found that overconsuming food in general or >> foods in particular, don't overconsume.
>> Again, the basis for the 2 PD Diet. Don't overconsume.
> @MU: how about some fact finding before you show your face again in this > newsgroup. You clearly talk non-sense and know nothing about diabetes.
> Q
lol
How about answering a question directly instead of blowing off a set of irrelevant statistics which feed your ego and make little contribution to the discussion?
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:23:29 +0000 (UTC), Charly Coughran wrote: > The choice of the best medication can be difficult and often depends on > the clinical judgement of the particular physician. You need to have a > frank discussion with your cardiologist where he explains what the > alternatives are, what the trade offs are, and why he has chosen the > current treatment. If he is not willing to do that, you need to find > someone who will. The fact that he is tracking your A1c is a good sign, > but you also need a doctor who will communicate with you and make you > part of the treatment team.
It also helps if that DR. has some clue about weigh control, what overconsumption *really* is and rejects calorie counting. If he doesn't match up to all of these criteria, kiss his sorry ass goodbye.
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:24:28 +0100, BDR529 wrote: >>> Just following a diet with type 2, or losing weight, or whatever >>> self-proclaimed idea you see, is not a good general advice for people >>> with type 2.
>> Should Type 2 diabetics not maintain healthy weight? That's what the 2PD >> OMER is about.
> Yes they should, but it may not be the only thing to do.
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 19:24:28 +0100, BDR529 wrote: >>> You will need to be tested once every year and sometimes more often, and >>> a professional should be telling you this.
>> Like a cardiologist? In Atlanta, would that be considered a >> "professional"
> What about the house doctor telling you where to go. The way it works > here is that you need a letter from the house doctor anyways if you want > the insurance company to pay for your expenses at the specialist.
What about answering my question instead of flipping the answer to show off your typing abilities?
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 20:02:40 +0100, BDR529 wrote: > @MU: how about some fact finding before you show your face again in this > newsgroup. You clearly talk non-sense and know nothing about diabetes.
> Q
@BDR how about some fact finding before you show your face again in this newsgroup. You clearly talk non-sense and know nothing about cardiology.
MU wrote: > On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:23:29 +0000 (UTC), Charly Coughran wrote:
>> The choice of the best medication can be difficult and often depends on >> the clinical judgement of the particular physician. You need to have a >> frank discussion with your cardiologist where he explains what the >> alternatives are, what the trade offs are, and why he has chosen the >> current treatment. If he is not willing to do that, you need to find >> someone who will. The fact that he is tracking your A1c is a good sign, >> but you also need a doctor who will communicate with you and make you >> part of the treatment team.
> It also helps if that DR. has some clue about weigh control, what > overconsumption *really* is and rejects calorie counting. If he doesn't > match up to all of these criteria, kiss his sorry ass goodbye.
@MU: I've heard the words "overconsumption" and "calorie restriction" so often from your beak that I doubt whether you know something else. Heart problems and diabetes, can have various underlying reasons. Once again, check some facts before bothering anyone in these NG's with your more than complete inadequate and illiterate bull shit.
Q
-- Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail me now!
> We know why he is having the problem (overconsumption), why run a bunch > of tests for a known answer (don't overconsume).
No, we don't. Healthy people don't have a blood pressure of 200/105 even after a large meal. So possible overconsumption is hardly the only problem here.
> Yes, a Beta Blocker can cause diabetes. Do you need one? I don't know. > Have you asked about taking an ACE or an ARB?
> As for your diet, restricting sugar is kind of meaningless. It is carbs we > must watch. Yes, sugar is a carb but no worse in terms of blood sugar than > juice, fruit, potatoes, pasta, bread, etc.
All carbs are not created equal. Fructose, which is part of table sugar, but not (or only in small amounts) of potatoes, pasta and bread, raises insulin resistance and is therefore worse for diabetics than other carbs. So restricting sugar may not be enough to control diabetes, but it is hardly meaningless if you try to prevent diabetes.
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:17:18 -0600, Michael wrote:
>>Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe >>diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it >>elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
>>The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more. >>Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are >>different for everyone.
> Point being, once you have found that overconsuming food in general or > foods in particular, don't overconsume.
> Again, the basis for the 2 PD Diet.
Isn't the official party line these days that the 2 PD is an approach and not a diet?
Don't overconsume.
No, that it is not the basis of the 2 PD diet or approach. The basis for the 2 PD is the absurd notion that 2 pounds is the right amount to eat for everyone, be it a 6-feet male taking the Tour de France or be it a 4-feet female couch potatoe.
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:05:29 -0600, MU wrote (in article <hcsmq9$m3...@news.eternal-september.org>):
> lol
> How about answering a question directly instead of blowing off a set of > irrelevant statistics which feed your ego and make little contribution > to the discussion?
> See how that works?
How about following your own advice.
Any citations in the main medical journals to support Chung's two pound diet which you support?
I would imagine only those gullible or stupid enough to follow that 2 pound diet would not notice your lack of response and not realize you do not respond because no such citations exist.
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:10:50 -0600, MU wrote (in article <hcsn4a$p1...@news.eternal-september.org>):
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:23:29 +0000 (UTC), Charly Coughran wrote:
>> The choice of the best medication can be difficult and often depends on >> the clinical judgement of the particular physician. You need to have a >> frank discussion with your cardiologist where he explains what the >> alternatives are, what the trade offs are, and why he has chosen the >> current treatment. If he is not willing to do that, you need to find >> someone who will. The fact that he is tracking your A1c is a good sign, >> but you also need a doctor who will communicate with you and make you >> part of the treatment team.
> It also helps if that DR. has some clue about weigh control, what > overconsumption *really* is and rejects calorie counting. If he doesn't > match up to all of these criteria, kiss his sorry ass goodbye.
It also helps in the DR does not follow some idea which is not published in any medical journal. There are all sorts of foolish and stupid stuff in the internet about weight loss, and your inability to provide any citations just shows it.
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:35:17 -0600, Thorsten Schier wrote (in article <hcsvik$d06$0...@news.t-online.com>):
> No, that it is not the basis of the 2 PD diet or approach. The basis for > the 2 PD is the absurd notion that 2 pounds is the right amount to eat > for everyone, be it a 6-feet male taking the Tour de France or be it a > 4-feet female couch potatoe.
Yes, It is really obvious if you stop and think for a minute.
>> Then *most* diabetics wouldn't be on med. Pretty much all of the ones I >> know in real life are.
> Sorry to intervene here, but this tread is becoming a collection of > meaningless and inaccurate one-liners.
> Type-2 diabetes is a serious condition that should not be ignored.
> The level at which a patient is affected by type 2 depends on a number of > performance indicators to be looked at by a health care professional.
> Some patients with type-2 diabetes can be treated with just pills.
> Other type two's do need insulin as I learned from the discussions here.
> And some type two's can keep their diabetes under control with a diet.
> Your mileage may vary.
> But, usually the situation is, once you are diagnosed with type 2 it is > something that will stay with you for the rest of your life.
> Just following a diet with type 2, or losing weight, or whatever > self-proclaimed idea you see, is not a good general advice for people with > type 2.
So far, every T2 patient I've seen has had their sugar levels below 100 by simple diet and exercise and cutting out the refuse they eat. As far as I'm concerned, this is *cured*. If you read the statistics most T2 diabetes is caused by lifestyle. Being that so many Americans are overweight, diabetes is higher here than most other countries. Most people who can't cure their diabetes are not trying hard enough. We rely far too much on medicines to hide the symptoms other than to find the underlying cause and solution. These are simple facts that can be easily researched and are verifiable.
How many of your patients do you put on meds for diabetes? That should be the *last* resort.
|
