>> Not necessarily. Just because they are on meds does not mean they have >> failed with diet with T2 diabetes control. IME T2 diabetics on meds have >> failed to control their T2 *because* they have failed at calorie >> counting, commercially oriented book diets such as Atkins.
>> You know this and you are being *BOVine*, as usual, and disingenuous, as >> usual.
> This discussion is a bit like. A cat is an animal with whiskers and a > tail, and what your trying to tell me now is that every animal with a > tail and whiskers is therefore .... a cat. No, you could also be dealing > with a 400 pound roaring tiger trying to grab you, which is certainly a > different situation than the average house cat in your room.
> Reversal leads to confusion and erroneous conclusions.
> There are type-2's who need meds AND a diet AND insulin to get their BG > under control.
> The only criterion for being is type 2 is that your insulin production > is too inefficient compared to a healthy person. There may be a variety > of reasons why type 2 develops, obesity is one of them.
> There are also plenty of obese people who will never develop a cardiac > problem, diabetes or whatever disease you had in mind. Churchill was one > of them.
> If you become a type-1 then there is no insulin production at all, and > then it needs to be injected with a syringe. Medically seen this is the > only difference between type 1 and type 2.
If you "become" T1 then you had no choice in the matter. There is no known preventive measure to take against T1. And as far as "medically seen this is the only difference...." that is just a ludicrous statement. How long have you been practicing medicine?
At any rate, 1st World countries, especially Americans, are in total denial when it comes for the causes and cures for T2 diabetes and a good many other medical conditions.
>> For Type II(*T2)??? You're thinking of Type I. Type 2 is not only >> managable, but completely curable.
> It's often completely manageable without meds, maybe even most of the time > for the most disciplined folks, but not curable even though complications > can be reversed.
> That's because the typical type 2 has already lost approx. 50% of > irreplaceable pancreatic beta cell mass by the time of diagnosis.
> And some diabetes is caused by undiagnosed and/or sub clinical > hypercortisolemia, or growth hormone excess, or other endocrine > disturbance other than insulin resistance that diet and exercise doesn't > control.
>>> Then *most* diabetics wouldn't be on med. Pretty much all of the >>> ones I know in real life are.
>> Sorry to intervene here, but this tread is becoming a collection of >> meaningless and inaccurate one-liners.
>> Type-2 diabetes is a serious condition that should not be ignored.
>> The level at which a patient is affected by type 2 depends on a number >> of performance indicators to be looked at by a health care professional.
>> Some patients with type-2 diabetes can be treated with just pills.
>> Other type two's do need insulin as I learned from the discussions here.
>> And some type two's can keep their diabetes under control with a diet.
>> Your mileage may vary.
>> But, usually the situation is, once you are diagnosed with type 2 it >> is something that will stay with you for the rest of your life.
>> Just following a diet with type 2, or losing weight, or whatever >> self-proclaimed idea you see, is not a good general advice for people >> with type 2.
> So far, every T2 patient I've seen has had their sugar levels below 100 > by simple diet and exercise and cutting out the refuse they eat. As far
I presume that you talk about their fasting BG levels.
> as I'm concerned, this is *cured*. If you read the statistics most T2
No, you don't just cure type 2, this is not true, read on...
> diabetes is caused by lifestyle. Being that so many Americans are > overweight, diabetes is higher here than most other countries. Most > people who can't cure their diabetes are not trying hard enough. We > rely far too much on medicines to hide the symptoms other than to find > the underlying cause and solution. These are simple facts that can be > easily researched and are verifiable.
Let me ask a question, are you suffering side effects from certain medicines, or are you afraid of taking them?
> How many of your patients do you put on meds for diabetes? That should > be the *last* resort.
I follow the advise of a doctor and I recommend you do the same. For more information you could perhaps read the following:
In people with Type 2 diabetes, glucose builds up in the blood. But with good management, your blood glucose levels may go down to normal again. But this does not mean you are cured. Instead, a blood glucose level in your target range shows that your treatment plan is working and that you are taking care of your diabetes.
And also:
Are lifestyle changes enough?
Type 2 diabetes is a progressive condition. This means that over time you will gradually produce less and less insulin. Although you may be able to manage your blood glucose levels in the healthy range by eating healthy food and having regular exercise for a number of years, most people come to need tablets or insulin as well as their food an exercise plan.
My conclusion is still, as I said before: once you have diabetes it will be with you for the rest of your life.
Maybe you find it unpleasant to hear, but I would accept this as a fact,
>>> Not necessarily. Just because they are on meds does not mean they have >>> failed with diet with T2 diabetes control. IME T2 diabetics on meds have >>> failed to control their T2 *because* they have failed at calorie >>> counting, commercially oriented book diets such as Atkins.
>>> You know this and you are being *BOVine*, as usual, and disingenuous, as >>> usual.
>> This discussion is a bit like. A cat is an animal with whiskers and a >> tail, and what your trying to tell me now is that every animal with a >> tail and whiskers is therefore .... a cat. No, you could also be dealing >> with a 400 pound roaring tiger trying to grab you, which is certainly a >> different situation than the average house cat in your room.
>> Reversal leads to confusion and erroneous conclusions.
>> There are type-2's who need meds AND a diet AND insulin to get their BG >> under control.
>> The only criterion for being is type 2 is that your insulin production >> is too inefficient compared to a healthy person. There may be a variety >> of reasons why type 2 develops, obesity is one of them.
>> There are also plenty of obese people who will never develop a cardiac >> problem, diabetes or whatever disease you had in mind. Churchill was one >> of them.
>> If you become a type-1 then there is no insulin production at all, and >> then it needs to be injected with a syringe. Medically seen this is the >> only difference between type 1 and type 2.
> If you "become" T1 then you had no choice in the matter. There is no > known preventive measure to take against T1. And as far as "medically > seen this is the only difference...." that is just a ludicrous > statement. How long have you been practicing medicine?
Why is this ludicrous? Type 1 = no insulin production, Type 2 = insufficient insulin production. What is your problem?
> At any rate, 1st World countries, especially Americans, are in total > denial when it comes for the causes and cures for T2 diabetes and a good > many other medical conditions.
Sure, denial is a well known phenomenon not only in the US by the way. It is a pretty ugly global phenomenon when you're talking about many medical conditions. People just don't want to hear bad news and accept it.
>>>> Then *most* diabetics wouldn't be on med. Pretty much all of the ones >>>> I know in real life are.
>>> Sorry to intervene here, but this tread is becoming a collection of >>> meaningless and inaccurate one-liners.
>>> Type-2 diabetes is a serious condition that should not be ignored.
>>> The level at which a patient is affected by type 2 depends on a number >>> of performance indicators to be looked at by a health care professional.
>>> Some patients with type-2 diabetes can be treated with just pills.
>>> Other type two's do need insulin as I learned from the discussions here.
>>> And some type two's can keep their diabetes under control with a diet.
>>> Your mileage may vary.
>>> But, usually the situation is, once you are diagnosed with type 2 it is >>> something that will stay with you for the rest of your life.
>>> Just following a diet with type 2, or losing weight, or whatever >>> self-proclaimed idea you see, is not a good general advice for people >>> with type 2.
>> So far, every T2 patient I've seen has had their sugar levels below 100 >> by simple diet and exercise and cutting out the refuse they eat. As far
> I presume that you talk about their fasting BG levels.
>> as I'm concerned, this is *cured*. If you read the statistics most T2
> No, you don't just cure type 2, this is not true, read on... >> diabetes is caused by lifestyle. Being that so many Americans are >> overweight, diabetes is higher here than most other countries. Most >> people who can't cure their diabetes are not trying hard enough. We rely >> far too much on medicines to hide the symptoms other than to find the >> underlying cause and solution. These are simple facts that can be easily >> researched and are verifiable.
> Let me ask a question, are you suffering side effects from certain > medicines, or are you afraid of taking them?
>> How many of your patients do you put on meds for diabetes? That should >> be the *last* resort.
> I follow the advise of a doctor and I recommend you do the same. For more > information you could perhaps read the following:
> In people with Type 2 diabetes, glucose builds up in the blood. But with > good management, your blood glucose levels may go down to normal again. > But this does not mean you are cured. Instead, a blood glucose level in > your target range shows that your treatment plan is working and that you > are taking care of your diabetes.
> And also:
> Are lifestyle changes enough?
> Type 2 diabetes is a progressive condition. This means that over time you > will gradually produce less and less insulin. Although you may be able to > manage your blood glucose levels in the healthy range by eating healthy > food and having regular exercise for a number of years, most people come > to need tablets or insulin as well as their food an exercise plan.
> My conclusion is still, as I said before: once you have diabetes it will > be with you for the rest of your life.
> Maybe you find it unpleasant to hear, but I would accept this as a fact,
You must either A) work for a pharmaceutical company or B) be completely brainwashed by them. To say T2 is *not* curable, is a complete falsehood. I assumed your were a physician. I can see this is not true or you would see this in your own patients. *My* doctor is one of my own colleagues who has the same experiences with T2 patients. Most cases are totally curable. There are some FEW exceptions. We generally don't see those.
Also, there are thousands of documented cases of T2 being cured. You can ask most internal medicine MDs. If one is telling you otherwise, he/she is a quack.
>>>>> Then *most* diabetics wouldn't be on med. Pretty much all of the >>>>> ones I know in real life are.
>>>> Sorry to intervene here, but this tread is becoming a collection of >>>> meaningless and inaccurate one-liners.
>>>> Type-2 diabetes is a serious condition that should not be ignored.
>>>> The level at which a patient is affected by type 2 depends on a >>>> number of performance indicators to be looked at by a health care >>>> professional.
>>>> Some patients with type-2 diabetes can be treated with just pills.
>>>> Other type two's do need insulin as I learned from the discussions >>>> here.
>>>> And some type two's can keep their diabetes under control with a diet.
>>>> Your mileage may vary.
>>>> But, usually the situation is, once you are diagnosed with type 2 it >>>> is something that will stay with you for the rest of your life.
>>>> Just following a diet with type 2, or losing weight, or whatever >>>> self-proclaimed idea you see, is not a good general advice for >>>> people with type 2.
>>> So far, every T2 patient I've seen has had their sugar levels below >>> 100 by simple diet and exercise and cutting out the refuse they eat. >>> As far
>> I presume that you talk about their fasting BG levels.
>>> as I'm concerned, this is *cured*. If you read the statistics most T2
>> No, you don't just cure type 2, this is not true, read on... >>> diabetes is caused by lifestyle. Being that so many Americans are >>> overweight, diabetes is higher here than most other countries. Most >>> people who can't cure their diabetes are not trying hard enough. We >>> rely far too much on medicines to hide the symptoms other than to >>> find the underlying cause and solution. These are simple facts that >>> can be easily researched and are verifiable.
>> Let me ask a question, are you suffering side effects from certain >> medicines, or are you afraid of taking them?
>>> How many of your patients do you put on meds for diabetes? That >>> should be the *last* resort.
>> I follow the advise of a doctor and I recommend you do the same. For >> more information you could perhaps read the following:
>> In people with Type 2 diabetes, glucose builds up in the blood. But >> with good management, your blood glucose levels may go down to normal >> again. But this does not mean you are cured. Instead, a blood glucose >> level in your target range shows that your treatment plan is working >> and that you are taking care of your diabetes.
>> And also:
>> Are lifestyle changes enough?
>> Type 2 diabetes is a progressive condition. This means that over time >> you will gradually produce less and less insulin. Although you may be >> able to manage your blood glucose levels in the healthy range by >> eating healthy food and having regular exercise for a number of years, >> most people come to need tablets or insulin as well as their food an >> exercise plan.
>> My conclusion is still, as I said before: once you have diabetes it >> will be with you for the rest of your life.
>> Maybe you find it unpleasant to hear, but I would accept this as a fact,
> You must either A) work for a pharmaceutical company or B) be completely > brainwashed by them. To say T2 is *not* curable, is a complete > falsehood. I assumed your were a physician. I can see this is not true > or you would see this in your own patients. *My* doctor is one of my
All your assertions are wrong, I'm not a physician but a type-2 patient.
> own colleagues who has the same experiences with T2 patients. Most > cases are totally curable. There are some FEW exceptions. We generally > don't see those.
Your assertion is that the cure for type 2 diabetes is a significant lifestyle change, essentially by significant weight loss and a strict diet. My assertion is, medically seen this lifestyle change doesn't make the problem go away. Why?
If a type 2 patient falls back into the old habits then blood sugar would get out of control again.
Have you ever heard about the jojo effect? Obese people going through a lot of trouble getting their weight down to suddenly return to their original weight because they can't keep it under control?
May I kindly remind that healthy people are able to significantly vary their weight and eat whatever they want to eat without having becoming a type 2.
Medically seen you have therefor a condition that distinguishes a healthy person from an affected person. We call it type-2 diabetes.
There is no trick in the book to "repair" a type 2 patient, you can not permanently turn his condition into a situation where his type 2 diabetes simply vanished.
Generally speaking, type 2 diabetes becomes worse over time.
I checked several national diabetes organization websites including the ADA. They all repeat essentially that type 2 diabetes requires permanent attention for the rest of your life.
My personal experience is:
I once managed to get type-2 under control by getting my BMI down to 25, it was there for three years.
My second daughter was born, my sister died from cancer (she was always obese) in the same year and a reorganization struck our company.
Stress like this is normal in life, but in my case the consequence is that I gained 25 kg in 3 years.
My BMI returned to 32, and a check at the doctor's office told me that my BG was hitting the roof.
Presently my BMI is 26, and I'm on medication and I don't expect anything to change soon.
> Also, there are thousands of documented cases of T2 being cured. You > can ask most internal medicine MDs. If one is telling you otherwise, > he/she is a quack.
There are too many examples of type-2 patients with experiences similar to my story.
A part of my solution is, accept that there is no cure. That alone is a permanent lifestyle change you need.
>> Not necessarily. Just because they are on meds does not mean they have >> failed with diet with T2 diabetes control. IME T2 diabetics on meds have >> failed to control their T2 *because* they have failed at calorie >> counting, commercially oriented book diets such as Atkins.
>> You know this and you are being *BOVine*, as usual, and disingenuous, as >> usual.
> This discussion is a bit like. A cat is an animal with whiskers and a > tail, and what your trying to tell me now is that every animal with a > tail and whiskers is therefore .... a cat. No, you could also be dealing > with a 400 pound roaring tiger trying to grab you, which is certainly a > different situation than the average house cat in your room.
> Reversal leads to confusion and erroneous conclusions.
> There are type-2's who need meds AND a diet AND insulin to get their BG > under control.
> The only criterion for being is type 2 is that your insulin production > is too inefficient compared to a healthy person. There may be a variety > of reasons why type 2 develops, obesity is one of them.
You are wrong there! Most but not all people with type 2 produce plenty if not waaaay too much insulin but they have insulin resistance so their bodies can't use it right.
> There are also plenty of obese people who will never develop a cardiac > problem, diabetes or whatever disease you had in mind. Churchill was one > of them.
True.
> If you become a type-1 then there is no insulin production at all, and > then it needs to be injected with a syringe. Medically seen this is the > only difference between type 1 and type 2.
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:07:06 +0100, BDR529 wrote: > MU wrote: >> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 22:23:29 +0000 (UTC), Charly Coughran wrote:
>>> The choice of the best medication can be difficult and often depends on >>> the clinical judgement of the particular physician. You need to have a >>> frank discussion with your cardiologist where he explains what the >>> alternatives are, what the trade offs are, and why he has chosen the >>> current treatment. If he is not willing to do that, you need to find >>> someone who will. The fact that he is tracking your A1c is a good sign, >>> but you also need a doctor who will communicate with you and make you >>> part of the treatment team.
>> It also helps if that DR. has some clue about weigh control, what >> overconsumption *really* is and rejects calorie counting. If he doesn't >> match up to all of these criteria, kiss his sorry ass goodbye.
> @MU: I've heard the words "overconsumption" and "calorie restriction" so > often from your beak that I doubt whether you know something else.
@BDR then you would, again, and likely will continue to be, wrong.
> Heart > problems and diabetes, can have various underlying reasons.
Really wow how interestingzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> Once again,
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
> check some facts before bothering anyone in these NG's with your more > than complete inadequate and illiterate bull shit.
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 01:12:15 +0100, BDR529 wrote: > No, you don't just cure type 2, this is not true, read on...
>> diabetes is caused by lifestyle. Being that so many Americans are >> overweight, diabetes is higher here than most other countries. Most >> people who can't cure their diabetes are not trying hard enough. We >> rely far too much on medicines to hide the symptoms other than to find >> the underlying cause and solution. These are simple facts that can be >> easily researched and are verifiable.
> Let me ask a question, are you suffering side effects from certain > medicines, or are you afraid of taking them?
Ooooh, nice shift and dodge there @BDR, you getting really goooood at smoke and mirrors.
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 19:22:07 -0500, Wendell T. Stamps wrote: > BDR You must either A) work for a pharmaceutical company or B) be completely > brainwashed by them. To say T2 is *not* curable, is a complete falsehood. > I assumed your were a physician.
A physician? Surely you jest. @BDR is licenses alright...as a SMJ...simple minded jerk.
> I can see this is not true or you would > see this in your own patients. *My* doctor is one of my own colleagues who > has the same experiences with T2 patients. Most cases are totally curable. > There are some FEW exceptions. We generally don't see those.
Yes and most is curable with proper consumption and both Chung and I have seen that the 2PD/day regimen works very well.
> Also, there are thousands of documented cases of T2 being cured. You can > ask most internal medicine MDs. If one is telling you otherwise, he/she is > a quack.
There telling him but his SMJ license kicks in. Nothing penetrates the Neanderthal skull, Wendell,
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 01:18:51 +0100, BDR529 wrote: > Why is this ludicrous? Type 1 = no insulin production, Type 2 = > insufficient insulin production. What is your problem?
>> At any rate, 1st World countries, especially Americans, are in total >> denial when it comes for the causes and cures for T2 diabetes and a good >> many other medical conditions.
> Sure, denial is a well known phenomenon not only in the US by the way. > It is a pretty ugly global phenomenon when you're talking about many > medical conditions. People just don't want to hear bad news and accept it.
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:14:03 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote: > MU schrieb: > [...]
>> We know why he is having the problem (overconsumption), why run a bunch >> of tests for a known answer (don't overconsume).
> No, we don't.
Uh, like Yes we do, the OP said so, that he was running high BP *after* overconsuming. Next time you want to bust into the middle of a discussion, why not *read* it first.
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:35:17 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote: > MU schrieb: >> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:17:18 -0600, Michael wrote:
>>>Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe >>>diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it >>>elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
>>>The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more. >>>Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are >>>different for everyone.
>> Point being, once you have found that overconsuming food in general or >> foods in particular, don't overconsume.
>> Again, the basis for the 2 PD Diet.
> Isn't the official party line these days that the 2 PD is an approach > and not a diet?
I don't know, I don't belong to any "party".
YMMV.
> Don't overconsume.
> No, that it is not the basis of the 2 PD diet or approach.
Well, you're having a really bad day, T-Bone, that most certainly is the basis of the 2PD
> The basis for > the 2 PD is the absurd notion that 2 pounds is the right amount to eat > for everyone, be it a 6-feet male taking the Tour de France or be it a > 4-feet female couch potatoe.
> HTH,
For blatant lying, yeah, it helps point out that you are a blatant liar.
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 17:36:20 -0600, MoSn wrote (in article <0001HW.C7176C140126B20AB01AD...@news.x-privat.org>):
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 16:35:17 -0600, Thorsten Schier wrote > (in article <hcsvik$d06$0...@news.t-online.com>):
>> No, that it is not the basis of the 2 PD diet or approach. The basis for >> the 2 PD is the absurd notion that 2 pounds is the right amount to eat >> for everyone, be it a 6-feet male taking the Tour de France or be it a >> 4-feet female couch potatoe.
> Yes, It is really obvious if you stop and think for a minute.
> Could MU be a sock puppet of Chung's?
That question has been asked before. Certainly have to wonder as MU does seem to support and parrot Chung pretty much all the time with an occasional mild exception to make it plausible that he is not.
>> Huh? Type 1's must use insulin. No diabetes is curable. Now run away >> troll.
> Wendy
lol
> thinks t-2 can be cured with a diet, I tried to convince her that > this is simply not the case.
> I don't classify Wendy as a spammer, she seems more like a newbie.
> Q
Since when is "Wendell" the name of a female?
lol
You know I bet your friends and family hate to see you coming. And I know they run in the other direction every time you show saying "Here comes that damn big mouth *clown* BDR-Q and he going to run his *righteous big mouth* about something -- LETS GO!"
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:35:17 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote:
>>MU schrieb:
>>>On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:17:18 -0600, Michael wrote:
>>>>Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe >>>>diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it >>>>elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
>>>>The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more. >>>>Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are >>>>different for everyone.
>>>Point being, once you have found that overconsuming food in general or >>>foods in particular, don't overconsume.
>>>Again, the basis for the 2 PD Diet.
>>Isn't the official party line these days that the 2 PD is an approach >>and not a diet?
> I don't know, I don't belong to any "party".
> YMMV.
Oh, sorry. I forgot that the 2-PD approach only has two believers. Yeah, that certainly wouldn't qualify as a party.
>>Don't overconsume.
>>No, that it is not the basis of the 2 PD diet or approach.
> Well, you're having a really bad day, T-Bone, that most certainly is the > basis of the 2PD
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:14:03 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote:
>>MU schrieb: >>[...]
>>>We know why he is having the problem (overconsumption), why run a bunch >>>of tests for a known answer (don't overconsume).
>>No, we don't.
> Uh, like Yes we do, the OP said so, that he was running high BP *after* > overconsuming. Next time you want to bust into the middle of a > discussion, why not *read* it first.
First, the OP didn't write anything about overconsuming. He wrote something about large meals, which is not the same, particularly if those large meals are only eaten occasionally.
Second, as I wrote before, healthy people don't have a blood pressure of 190/105 or 200/105 just because they ate a large meal. So the OP faces a medical problem. He may be able to avoid the high blood pressure after large meals by avoiding large meals, but he will likely have high blood pressure in other situations as well.
On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 21:38:52 +0000 (UTC), W. Baker wrote: > In alt.support.diabetes BDR529 <jake> wrote: >: Julie Bove wrote: >:> "Wendell T. Stamps" <anot...@x.com> wrote in message >:> news:hPSdnUTS2tDlj2_XnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@giganews.com... >:>> "Julie Bove" <julieb...@verizon.net> wrote in message >:>> news:hcqr47$efl$1@news.eternal-september.org... >:>>> "Wendell T. Stamps" <anot...@x.com> wrote in message >:>>> news:MJqdnexIo-NRdG3XnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@giganews.com... >:>>>> "Julie Bove" <julieb...@verizon.net> wrote in message >:>>>> news:hcqpiu$48r$1@news.eternal-september.org... >:>>>>> "Wendell T. Stamps" <anot...@x.com> wrote in message >:>>>>> news:ZP-dnez1KfnWX23XnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d@giganews.com... >:>>>>>> T2 diabetes is easily managable with your diet. >:>>>>> Not necessarily. >:>>>> For *most* people. >:>>> Then *most* diabetics wouldn't be on med. Pretty much all of the ones I >:>>> know in real life are. >:>> For Type II(*T2)??? You're thinking of Type I. Type 2 is not only >:>> managable, but completely curable. >:> >:> Huh? Type 1's must use insulin. No diabetes is curable. Now run away >:> troll. >:> >:>
>: Wendy thinks t-2 can be cured with a diet, I tried to convince her that >: this is simply not the case.
>: I don't classify Wendy as a spammer, she seems more like a newbie.
>: Q
> Who are you talking about? Wendy, who? I am Wendy and have been here for > a ong time and am not Wendell-please be careful who you slander
> Wendy(Baker)
Don't worry about it, Wendy, he's just another kid ohn a Usenet block full of them.
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:26:27 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote: > MU schrieb: >> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:14:03 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote:
>>>MU schrieb: >>>[...]
>>>>We know why he is having the problem (overconsumption), why run a bunch >>>>of tests for a known answer (don't overconsume).
>>>No, we don't.
>> Uh, like Yes we do, the OP said so, that he was running high BP *after* >> overconsuming. Next time you want to bust into the middle of a >> discussion, why not *read* it first.
> First, the OP didn't write anything about overconsuming.
So you finally went back and read the discussion, finally, now, moving on.....
> He wrote > something about large meals,
"Something"? He wrote more than that but I'll be damned if I'm going to do *your* work for you.
> which is not the same, particularly if > those large meals are only eaten occasionally.
Ah so overconsumption is *never* one meal.
Bzzzzzzzzt.
Wrong. One, many, several...all in context, T-Bone.
> Second, as I wrote before, healthy people don't have a blood pressure of > 190/105 or 200/105 just because they ate a large meal.
Really, how lucid of you.
> So the OP faces a > medical problem.
Caused by his overconsumption.
> He may be able to avoid the high blood pressure after > large meals by avoiding large meals,
duh
> but he will likely have high blood > pressure in other situations as well.
> Thorsten
You have no way of knowing that, what a load you are.
OK, let me put it another way. In the movie Jurassic Park, there's a scene where a researcher sticks her hand in a pile of dinosaur dung, digs around, and pulls out an undigested berry. I'm sure if I listened to more of you, I too may discover a berry, but to me, the price is too high.
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 22:18:18 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote: > MU schrieb: >> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 23:35:17 +0100, Thorsten Schier wrote:
>>>MU schrieb:
>>>>On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 12:17:18 -0600, Michael wrote:
>>>>>Many others here are able to control their BG with a much less severe >>>>>diet. I like decaffeinated black coffee. I cannot drink it because it >>>>>elevates my BG. I have no idea why. Just different body chemistry.
>>>>>The lesson I have learned here is to test, test, and test some more. >>>>>Always eat to the meter. The foods that we can and cannot eat are >>>>>different for everyone.
>>>>Point being, once you have found that overconsuming food in general or >>>>foods in particular, don't overconsume.
>>>>Again, the basis for the 2 PD Diet.
>>>Isn't the official party line these days that the 2 PD is an approach >>>and not a diet?
>> I don't know, I don't belong to any "party".
>> YMMV.
> Oh, sorry. I forgot that the 2-PD approach only has two believers. Yeah, > that certainly wouldn't qualify as a party.
Wrong again but you knew that because you have followed Chung and I arond like a little lapdog for a decade now.
Why lie? Everyone knows when yu do so why do it?
That's because you're a self centered git with absolutely no peripheral vision whatsoever. Running the risk of shattering your credibility and usurping your OWN authority by getting your hand caught in that particular lying cookie jar would be the text book definition of negligence, dereliction of duty, and a grossly deficient IQ.
The only person overlooking reality is you. You have to if you want to prop up your foil beanie theories.
>>>Don't overconsume.
>>>No, that it is not the basis of the 2 PD diet or approach.
>> Well, you're having a really bad day, T-Bone, that most certainly is the >> basis of the 2PD
> No, it's not.
> HTH,
> Thorsten
Considering that Chung and I were the first tointroduce the 2PD to Usenet, USA and the world. I suppose that a *strooooooooooong* case could be made that you are talking out your butt and we are talking from the Author's view.
W. Baker wrote: > In alt.support.diabetes BDR529 <jake> wrote: > : Julie Bove wrote: > : > "Wendell T. Stamps" <anot...@x.com> wrote in message > : > news:hPSdnUTS2tDlj2_XnZ2dnUVZ_qGdnZ2d@giganews.com... > : >> "Julie Bove" <julieb...@verizon.net> wrote in message > : >> news:hcqr47$efl$1@news.eternal-september.org... > : >>> "Wendell T. Stamps" <anot...@x.com> wrote in message > : >>> news:MJqdnexIo-NRdG3XnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@giganews.com... > : >>>> "Julie Bove" <julieb...@verizon.net> wrote in message > : >>>> news:hcqpiu$48r$1@news.eternal-september.org... > : >>>>> "Wendell T. Stamps" <anot...@x.com> wrote in message > : >>>>> news:ZP-dnez1KfnWX23XnZ2dnUVZ_oydnZ2d@giganews.com... > : >>>>>> T2 diabetes is easily managable with your diet. > : >>>>> Not necessarily. > : >>>> For *most* people. > : >>> Then *most* diabetics wouldn't be on med. Pretty much all of the ones I > : >>> know in real life are. > : >> For Type II(*T2)??? You're thinking of Type I. Type 2 is not only > : >> managable, but completely curable. > : > > : > Huh? Type 1's must use insulin. No diabetes is curable. Now run away > : > troll. > : > > : >
> : Wendy thinks t-2 can be cured with a diet, I tried to convince her that > : this is simply not the case.
> : I don't classify Wendy as a spammer, she seems more like a newbie.
> : Q
> Who are you talking about? Wendy, who? I am Wendy and have been here for > a ong time and am not Wendell-please be careful who you slander
> Wendy(Baker)
You're right, Wendell T Stamps was the newbie, not Wendy Baker of course. I owe you.
Q
-- Our Lady of Blessed Acceleration, don't fail me now!
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