A .. "drug" .. Methinks it is a vitamin .. found in the chaff of your grain .. as well as other plant foods .. -----------
Drug that raises good cholestrol can also clear arteries: Study
By Dipankar De Sarkar, London, Nov 4 : A study led by an Indian-origin researcher has found that a drug that raises levels of 'good' cholesterol can also help clear clogged arteries in heart patients who are already on standard statin therapy, Oxford University announced Wednesday.
The findings of the study, led by Robin Choudhury of the department of cardiovascular medicine at Oxford University, are published in this week's issue of the Journal of the American College of Cardiology.
"This is an exciting find because it gives a new opportunity to treat cardiovascular patients," Choudhury told IANS.
"This is the first clear evidence that a therapy to raise levels of good cholesterol when taken alongside statins can have a beneficial effect."
The researchers used MRI scans to show a reduction in the clogging of artery walls in patients after a year of treatment with niacin, a B vitamin commonly used to raise levels of high-density lipoprotein (HDL) or 'good' cholestrol.
Choudhury, whose father is a retired surgeon at Nilratan Sircar Hospital in Kolkata, said if the findings are borne out in ongoing larger studies, "this could benefit large numbers of people worldwide".
A third to a quarter of all heart patients have low levels of good cholestrol, but niacin fell out of favour after being shown to be useful in the early days of heart treatment, as statin became more common.
"This is the renaissance of an old friend," Choudhury said.
Heart disease is the biggest killer in the Western world, and atherosclerosis - the 'furring up' or hardening of arteries - is closely linked to later heart attacks and strokes.
The standard treatment for patients with atherosclerosis is to be prescribed statins, which lower the levels of 'bad' cholesterol, which might otherwise get deposited in the arteries.
'Good' cholesterol is thought to help remove bad cholesterol from the arteries.
The Oxford researchers, who worked with colleagues from Manchester University, found that after a year of niacin therapy the size of clogged artery walls in heart patients thinned down by an average of 1.1 sq mm, while those receiving a placebo saw an average increase of 1.2 sq mm.
Patients on niacin showed an average 23 percent increase in levels of good cholesterol and a reduction in bad cholesterol of 19 percent.
"For years we had always been taught that atherosclerosis was a relentless progressive disease," said Choudhury. "It is exciting to see a regression in established atherosclerosis."
"Our results are very encouraging in that they have shown a very definite potential benefit, and will certainly increase the great interest in the large outcome studies that are due to report in the next couple of years," he added.
Two such studies, including one at Oxford, involving thousands of patients will report their results in the next few years.
"A .. "drug" .. Methinks it is a vitamin .. found in the chaff of your grain .. as well as other plant foods .."
Silly, it was given at pharmaceutical levels of several grams, far far above what one could possibly consume from food sources.
Any substance can be a drug if it has effects in doses large enough. An aspirin work alike is in willow bark, but you pop a pill because of the levels found there after a night of huffing.
> "A .. "drug" .. > Methinks it is a vitamin .. found in the chaff of your grain .. as > well as other plant foods .."
> Silly, it was given at pharmaceutical levels of several grams, far far > above what one could possibly consume from food sources.
> Any substance can be a drug if it has effects in doses large enough. An > aspirin work alike is in willow bark, but you pop a pill because of the > levels found there after a night of huffing.
I'd reword that to many substances (which an aside). The issue here is one of control. Many want a nanny world were every nutrient, nutraceutical, nutrient-like substance, herb, amino acid is restricted to tiny barely nutritional dosing much less than doses useful in the face of some biochemical problem/illness. Many will wave their hands and then express the idea that only the medical doctor should be the one choosing the treatment and that all drugs and therapy should come only by the one conventional avenue.
And I can come up with a rather long list of such substances that are useful and even preferable over some conventional drug or surgical treatments. I am referring to doses above the conventional tiny "nutritional doses."
conventions are not truth or optimal choices...............................Trig
New? Niapsan is the first statin of choice (or should I say of low price?). The new formulation just time releases to deal with flushes. Although it is very closely related to nicotine it has major biological functions. Google Targecept.
- = - Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htmhttp://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2 ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}--- [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards] [Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
"The issue here is one of control. Many want a nanny world were every nutrient, nutraceutical, nutrient-like substance, herb, amino acid is restricted to tiny barely nutritional dosing much less than doses useful in the face of some biochemical problem/illness. Many will wave their hands and then express the idea that only the medical doctor should be the one choosing the treatment and that all drugs and therapy should come only by the one conventional avenue."
Who is restricting? I can easily buy niacin by the pound, even the ton. And where are any of the substances you mention restricted in general? The real question is not restriction but the absence of information about safety, effectivness, and content validity even at the level as is now available for aspirin. The consumer wants to be an informed consumer.
"And I can come up with a rather long list of such substances that are useful and even preferable over some conventional drug or surgical treatments. I am referring to doses above the conventional tiny "nutritional doses.""
Fine, many drugs contain substances such as these. Any proposed list must be validated by research.
> "The issue here is one of control. Many want a nanny world were every > nutrient, nutraceutical, nutrient-like substance, herb, amino acid is > restricted to tiny barely nutritional dosing much less than doses useful > in the face of some biochemical problem/illness. Many will wave their > hands and then express the idea that only the medical doctor should be > the one choosing the treatment and that all drugs and therapy should > come only by the one conventional avenue."
> Who is restricting? I can easily buy niacin by the pound, even the ton. > And where are any of the substances you mention restricted in general? > The real question is not restriction but the absence of information > about safety, effectivness, and content validity even at the level as is > now available for aspirin. The consumer wants to be an informed > consumer.
Just don't except new restrictions to do any of that. And I certainly agree with the consumer informing himself. Most would pay lip service to that idea as it is a Mom and apple pie type of thing.
> "And I can come up with a rather long list of such substances that are > useful and even preferable over some conventional drug or surgical > treatments. I am referring to doses above the conventional tiny > "nutritional doses.""
> Fine, many drugs contain substances such as these. Any proposed list > must be validated by research.
Don't be naive. Without new paths to research and a lot more of it, it is logical take substances based on clinical observation and tradition. It has been my observation so called validated research allows ha its shortcomings. When one is suffering even dying, there comes a time to stuff standards of proof into the nearest bleating orifice and take a chance. Besides some of what that is seen is as validated by conventional medicine is half baked BS.
I'll give you an example or two otherwise the discussion is just blah blah blah.
Myo-inositol for OCD and panic attacks. There is research but the drug rep will whine that isn't enough. No matter there is no dependency issue and virtually non toxic unlike with a conventional SSRI med.
Or consider the poor sap with "GERD", the TV advert with push him or her to the latest purple pill and the medical Doctor will write this victim a script to take to the pharmacy. No matter the GERD model they follow is flawed and dangerous. Better it is in my experience to do the opposite to treat GERD, to raise daytime stomach acidity with betaine HCL to increase GI tract motility and then to take 6 mgs of melatonin as bedtime prevent inflammation and acid breakthru.
and as I said conventions are not truth or optimal
> The real question is not restriction but the absence of information > about safety, effectivness, and content validity even at the level as is > now available for aspirin. =A0The consumer wants to be an informed > consumer.
"Just don't except new restrictions to do any of that. And I certainly agree with the consumer informing himself. Most would pay lip service to that idea as it is a Mom and apple pie type of thing."
Who said anything about restrictions? You can have as much aspirin as you wish, and those things are fully known. It is not just "mom and apple pie" it is also and perhaps more important to avoid shelling out money for a pig in a poke, and for the shills and hucksters selling vapor and promises.
> Fine, many drugs contain substances such as these. =A0Any proposed list > must be validated by research.
"Don't be naive. Without new paths to research and a lot more of it, it is logical take substances based on clinical observation and tradition. It has been my observation so called validated research allows ha its shortcomings. When one is suffering even dying, there comes a time to stuff standards of proof into the nearest bleating orifice and take a chance. Besides some of what that is seen is as validated by conventional medicine is half baked BS."
Now who is being naive? Many drugs find their origin in substances discovered by ethnobotony and by searching for existing substances with a particular activity profile. People active in this area are always looking for new ways to directly affect some process, there is no absence of people and effort in this area.
As for the "dying" crack, yup, the perfect victum for the shills and hucksters, did anyone say latril and cancer "cures"?
"I'll give you an example or two otherwise the discussion is just blah blah blah.
Myo-inositol for OCD and panic attacks. There is research but the drug rep will whine that isn't enough. No matter there is no dependency issue and virtually non toxic unlike with a conventional SSRI med."
Interpretation, "research" is minimal or mmixed in results and no way to know if it is safe or effective nor what is in the bottle some internet company sends you. Research is just not doing studies, it is nailing down as much as practical the bits above. We have this for aspirin but not apparently for the substance nor its suggested use as above?
"Or consider the poor sap with "GERD", the TV advert with push him or her to the latest purple pill and the medical Doctor will write this victim a script to take to the pharmacy. No matter the GERD model they follow is flawed and dangerous. Better it is in my experience to do the opposite to treat GERD, to raise daytime stomach acidity with betaine HCL to increase GI tract motility and then to take 6 mgs of melatonin as bedtime prevent inflammation and acid breakthru."
Interpretation, no research but some anecdotal unsubstantiated experiences. Thow in a pinch of "its the evil pharma" and the recipie is done.
" and as I said conventions are not truth or optimal"
Which as with one's ox, depends on which conventions are on the block for enspection.
vjp2...@at.BioStrategist.dot.dot.com wrote: > New? Niapsan is the first statin of choice (or should I say of low > price?). The new formulation just time releases to deal with flushes. > Although it is very closely related to nicotine it has major > biological functions. Google Targecept.
> - = - > Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist > http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htmhttp://www.facebook.com/vasjpan2 > ---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}--- > [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards] > [Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]
Niaspan is slow release niacin in a prescription form so it costs a lot more and is much hard on the liver - it is not a statin. I use regular Niacin (B3) which I buy by the gram or in bulk for dirt cheap. Niacin increases HDL and decreases LDL particle size while lower trigs dramatically, doing a much better job on all accounts than any statin. Statins don't increase HDL and LDL particle size.
--
Pramesh Rutaji
p297tongue6...@newsguy.com - remove tongue to reply
> > The real question is not restriction but the absence of information > > about safety, effectivness, and content validity even at the level as > is > > now available for aspirin. =A0The consumer wants to be an informed > > consumer.
> "Just don't except new restrictions to do any of that. And I certainly > agree with the consumer informing himself. Most would pay lip service to > that idea as it is a Mom and apple pie type of thing."
> Who said anything about restrictions? You can have as much aspirin as > you wish, and those things are fully known. It is not just "mom and > apple pie" it is also and perhaps more important to avoid shelling out > money for a pig in a poke, and for the shills and hucksters selling > vapor and promises.
> > Fine, many drugs contain substances such as these. =A0Any proposed > list > > must be validated by research.
> "Don't be naive. Without new paths to research and a lot more of it, it > is logical take substances based on clinical observation and tradition. > It has been my observation so called validated research allows ha its > shortcomings. When one is suffering even dying, there comes a time to > stuff standards of proof into the nearest bleating orifice and take a > chance. Besides some of what that is seen is as validated by > conventional medicine is half baked BS."
> Now who is being naive? Many drugs find their origin in substances > discovered by ethnobotony and by searching for existing substances with > a particular activity profile. People active in this area are always > looking for new ways to directly affect some process, there is no > absence of people and effort in this area.
> As for the "dying" crack, yup, the perfect victum for the shills and > hucksters, did anyone say latril and cancer "cures"?
> "I'll give you an example or two otherwise the discussion is just blah > blah blah.
> Myo-inositol for OCD and panic attacks. There is research but the drug > rep will whine that isn't enough. No matter there is no dependency issue > and virtually non toxic unlike with a conventional SSRI med."
> Interpretation, "research" is minimal or mmixed in results and no way to > know if it is safe or effective nor what is in the bottle some internet > company sends you. Research is just not doing studies, it is nailing > down as much as practical the bits above. We have this for aspirin but > not apparently for the substance nor its suggested use as above?
> "Or consider the poor sap with "GERD", the TV advert with push him or > her to the latest purple pill and the medical Doctor will write this > victim a script to take to the pharmacy. No matter the GERD model they > follow is flawed and dangerous. Better it is in my experience to do the > opposite to treat GERD, to raise daytime stomach acidity with betaine > HCL to increase GI tract motility and then to take 6 mgs of melatonin as > bedtime prevent inflammation and acid breakthru."
> Interpretation, no research but some anecdotal unsubstantiated > experiences. Thow in a pinch of "its the evil pharma" and the recipie > is done.
> " and as I said conventions are not truth or optimal"
> Which as with one's ox, depends on which conventions are on the block > for enspection.
In life what matters is not only grand overall theory, but also the specific and the boots on the ground reality. And by the way, there is some research on some of this and there certainly is some experience. And I freely admit some of the experience is mine. And yes that can be denied but I suspect many of us here are amazed at what some deny. Thus we come to the issue of motive.
I desired a different sort of discussion. This is clearly a MHA thread even if it is cross-threaded on to other forums. Nor should I have expect anything beyond I got from you as that would be counter to the mainstream of human nature.
"> " and as I said conventions are not truth or optimal"
> Which as with one's ox, depends on which conventions are on the block > for enspection.
"In life what matters is not only grand overall theory, but also the specific and the boots on the ground reality. "
The grand theory and the on the ground reality must support each other. Astrology an example where the "ground" part is the failure, which refutes the theory. There is in too many cases a grand theory,ex. Homeopathic musings, and many others in a similar state where this is lacking.
"And by the way, there is some research on some of this and there certainly is some experience. And I freely admit some of the experience is mine."
But the questions of - is it safe, is it effective, and are contents known to reflect both is lacking. To have done "research" and have suggestive at best experiences is not to have answered these questions. Only when demonstrated in humans on a controlled basis can these questions ever hope to be addressed.
"And yes that can be denied but I suspect many of us here are amazed at what some deny. Thus we come to the issue of motive."
Not denied at all, only seen and known for what it clearly is and is not, which it seems is the larger source of denial. A question of "motivation" is always a two edged sword.
"I desired a different sort of discussion. This is clearly a MHA thread even if it is cross-threaded on to other forums. Nor should I have expect anything beyond I got from you as that would be counter to the mainstream of human nature."
I took my lead from you in the direction you took this thread. What the rest means is not clear. Wanting to know - is it safe, does it work, and do the contents provide for same? This indeed the usual and normal response of human nature. "
Swimming upstream.......................Trig""
Those of us interested in evidence based and demonstrated medical practice feel it is we in that situation. Consider the infomercials on tv and radio and the large numbers of people taken in by same and similar for evidence of it.
B vitamin outperforms another drug in keeping arteries clear The findings led to an early halt of a small study comparing Niaspan and Zetia, two compounds commonly used along with statins to reduce heart attack risk By Laura Beil Monday, November 16th, 2009 ORLANDO, Fla. — Adding a pharmaceutical form of the B vitamin niacin — but not the drug ezetimibe — to a cholesterol-lowering statin drug appears to reduce artery plaque buildup in patients with coronary artery disease, according to much-anticipated results announced at a press conference November 15.
> A .. "drug" .. > Methinks it is a vitamin .. found in the chaff of your grain .. as > well as other plant foods .. > -----------
> Drug that raises good cholestrol can also clear arteries: Study
> By Dipankar De Sarkar, London, Nov 4 : A study led by an Indian-origin > researcher has found that a drug that raises levels of 'good' > cholesterol can also help clear clogged arteries in heart patients who > are already on standard statin therapy, Oxford University announced > Wednesday.
> The findings of the study, led by Robin Choudhury of the department of > cardiovascular medicine at Oxford University, are published in this > week's issue of the Journal of the American College of Cardiology.
> "This is an exciting find because it gives a new opportunity to treat > cardiovascular patients," Choudhury told IANS.
> "This is the first clear evidence that a therapy to raise levels of > good cholesterol when taken alongside statins can have a beneficial > effect."
> The researchers used MRI scans to show a reduction in the clogging of > artery walls in patients after a year of treatment withniacin, a B > vitamin commonly used to raise levels of high-density lipoprotein > (HDL) or 'good' cholestrol.
> Choudhury, whose father is a retired surgeon at Nilratan Sircar > Hospital in Kolkata, said if the findings are borne out in ongoing > larger studies, "this could benefit large numbers of people > worldwide".
> A third to a quarter of all heart patients have low levels of good > cholestrol, butniacinfell out of favour after being shown to be > useful in the early days of heart treatment, as statin became more > common.
> "This is the renaissance of an old friend," Choudhury said.
> Heart disease is the biggest killer in the Western world, and > atherosclerosis - the 'furring up' or hardening of arteries - is > closely linked to later heart attacks and strokes.
> The standard treatment for patients with atherosclerosis is to be > prescribed statins, which lower the levels of 'bad' cholesterol, which > might otherwise get deposited in the arteries.
> 'Good' cholesterol is thought to help remove bad cholesterol from the > arteries.
> The Oxford researchers, who worked with colleagues from Manchester > University, found that after a year ofniacintherapy the size of > clogged artery walls in heart patients thinned down by an average of > 1.1 sq mm, while those receiving a placebo saw an average increase of > 1.2 sq mm.
> Patients onniacinshowed an average 23 percent increase in levels of > good cholesterol and a reduction in bad cholesterol of 19 percent.
> "For years we had always been taught that atherosclerosis was a > relentless progressive disease," said Choudhury. "It is exciting to > see a regression in established atherosclerosis."
> "Our results are very encouraging in that they have shown a very > definite potential benefit, and will certainly increase the great > interest in the large outcome studies that are due to report in the > next couple of years," he added.
> Two such studies, including one at Oxford, involving thousands of > patients will report their results in the next few years.
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