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glird  
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 More options Nov 5, 10:26 am
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.physics.particle, sci.math
From: glird <gl...@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2009 14:56:26 -0800 (PST)
Local: Thurs, Nov 5 2009 10:26 am
Subject: Re: Call for a Paradigm Shift in Fundamental Physics
On Nov 3, 10:20 am, GSS wrote:

> < The proposed experiment is designed to detect the absolute motion of earth through measurement of tiny differences in up-link and

down-link signal propagation times between two fixed points A and
B,but without relying on the wave properties of light. >

  Let light be a disturbance moving at c through a local space taken
as stationary.  Let A and B be two points 1 unit apart on the Y axis
of system K that is moving through this space at .6c in the x
direction. At t = 0 let a ray of light emit from A toward B and
reflect therefrom back to A.
  As plotted by a system k' at rest in this space, with its X' axis
coinciding with X of K and its vertical axes parallel to those of K,
the ray moves up Y at c' = qc, where q = sqrt of (1 - v^2/c^2), thus
takes t' = 1.25 seconds each way. In order for K to measure this as 1
secodn each way, thus to let c' = 1 as plotted by K, clocks of the
moving system have to run slow by q, wherefore t = qt = .8 x 1.2 each
way. (Note that the path of the beam is on the hypotenuse of a right
triangle, of which Y is one side and vc is the length of the other.
given that B is 1 unit from A on Y, then AB = 1 is the length of Y as
measured by both systems; and the hypotenuse is 1.2 units long as
measured by k; which is WHY ittakes a ray 1.25 seconds to get from A
to b as plotted by stationary cs k.
  HOWEVER!!  There is no reason to let moving systems clocks run slow
by q or for their vertical axes to remain undeformed while their
horizontal axis shrinks by q. Suppose, for instance, that lengths
remain constant in the direction a system is moving through the above
stationary space. If its lengths EXPAND by 1/q in the vertical axes
and its clocks run slow by q = q^2 = (c^2-v^2), then it would measure
the light's time from A to B and from B to A, thus up and then down Y
or Z as t = 1 second, and the speed of light would remain c = 1 unit/
sec as plotted by K.
  Suppose that lengths in the vertical axes SHRINK by q. then clocks
of moving systems could keep identical rates as stationary ones and it
would still take 1 second for a ray to travel up 1 unit on y and back
again. (If that happens, then lengths in the direction of motion would
have to shrink by Q in order to measure the round-trip time as 1
second per unit of length, thus for c to remain equal to 1 as plotted
by the moving systems. As to the one way times per unit length of such
deformed systems, unless clocks of each such system is set to MEASURE
c = 1 in all directions - i.e. to be esynched via Einstein's defined
method which he called "synchronized" - they won't.)

p.s.  If we let moving systems deform as per the LTE - thus let
lengths remain constant in the vertical axes and shrink by q in the
direction of motion, with clocks running q slow - and consider the
first case discused above, then even though rays would travel up and
down Y in 1 second each way as plottted by k, the ray would have
emitted from x=y=x'=y'=0 and would return to x=y=y'=0 as plotted by k
and k; but would NOT have returned to x' = 0 as plotted by the
stationary system k! It would return to x' = 0 + 2vt'; which is WHY
the moving clocks on X have to have a Voigtian local time offset of -
vx/c^2 seconds per successive clock, in which x is the distance
between two such clocks as measured by the given moving system itself,
and v - which doesn't have to be known by the esyching cs - is its
speed in the 'empty space" in which Einstein postulated that light
moves at c.

glird


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GSS  
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 More options Nov 6, 2:32 am
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.physics.particle, sci.math
From: GSS <gurcharn_san...@yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 07:02:08 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Nov 6 2009 2:32 am
Subject: Re: Call for a Paradigm Shift in Fundamental Physics
On Nov 5, 3:56 am, glird <gl...@aol.com> wrote:

Why should any spatial length SHRINK or EXPAND when a 'photon' or an
'observer' passes by? I hope you are aware that any shrinkage or
expansion of a spatial length always induces a strain field in the
region and that all strain fields are subjected to certain physical
constraints like continuity of associated displacements and
equilibrium of associated stresses.

Consider a steel rod of length L laid along X-axis of a stationary
reference frame K. Suppose there are n 'witches' (W1, W2, W3, ..., Wn)
flying along the X-axis at uniform velocities of V1, V2, V3,...,Vn
respectively. If we assume that the length L of the steel rod will
actually become L1 for witch W1, L2 for W2, L3 for W3 and Ln for the
witch Wn, will you call it Witchcraft or Relativity?

Now consider two point A and B fixed on the surface of earth and
separated by distance D. Let us position two identical atomic clocks
at A and B and ensure their absolute synchronization. When we send a
laser pulse from location A to B, we can arrange to record the up-link
pulse propagation time Tu from the instantaneous transmission and
reception time readout of the atomic clocks A and B respectively.
Similarly we can record the down-link time Td for the pulse
propagation from B to A.

As per Relativity, the up-link signal propagation time Tu is SUPPOSED
to be equal to the down-link signal propagation time Td in any
stationary reference frame when the two clocks A and B are stationary
in that reference frame (Tu = Td). But when the two clocks are moving
along AB with a common velocity U, the up-link and down-link signal
propagation times will no longer be equal (Tu <> Td). However, when
the two clocks A and B are SIMULTANEOUSLY at rest in the local or Lab
frame and in motion in the BCRF and the Galactic reference frames, the
up-link and down-link signal propagation times Tu and Td will be
required to be simultaneously equal and unequal at the same time. If
you can make two physical measurements Tu and Td to be equal and
unequal at the same time, will you call it Relativity or Witchcraft?

GSS
http://book.fundamentalphysics.info


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Ahmed Ouahi, Architect  
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 More options Nov 6, 8:17 am
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.physics.particle, sci.math
From: "Ahmed Ouahi, Architect" <ahmed.ou...@welho.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 22:47:37 +0200
Local: Fri, Nov 6 2009 8:17 am
Subject: Re: Call for a Paradigm Shift in Fundamental Physics
Computational Geometry from the Viewpoint of Affine Differential Geometry
http://videolectures.net/etvc08_matsuzoe_cgftv/

Information Geometry and Its Applications
http://videolectures.net/etvc08_amari_igaia/

--
Ahmed Ouahi, Architect
Best Regards!

"GSS" <gurcharn_san...@yahoo.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:b9ef90e4-756a-4742-9aab-f8db69c6e...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...


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glird  
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 More options Nov 6, 1:27 pm
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.physics.particle, sci.math
From: glird <gl...@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 17:57:23 -0800 (PST)
Local: Fri, Nov 6 2009 1:27 pm
Subject: Re: Call for a Paradigm Shift in Fundamental Physics
On Nov 5, 10:02 am, GSS wrote:

> < I hope you are aware that any shrinkage or

 expansion of a spatial length always induces
 a strain field in the region and that all
 strain fields are subjected to certain
 physical constraints like continuity of
 associated displacements and equilibrium of
 associated stresses. >

  In his 1904 paper Lorentz showed that the opposite is correct, i.e.
that objects shrink in order to ELIMINATE what would otherwise have
been a strain in the local material field.

> < Consider a steel rod of length L laid along X-axis of a stationary reference frame K. Suppose there are n 'witches' (W1, W2, W3, ..., Wn)flying along the X-axis at uniform velocities of V1, V2, V3,...,Vn respectively. If we assume that the length L of the steel rod will actually become L1 for witch W1, L2 for W2, L3 for W3 and Ln for the witch Wn, will you call it Witchcraft or Relativity? >

  No; I would call it defective semantics.
(The length of a stationary rod won't "actually become" a function of
which witch is looking at it; it will only APPEAR to be deformed as
measured with the help of esynched clocks of each witch's system.

> < Now consider two point A and B fixed on the surface of earth and separated by distance D. Let us position two identical atomic clocks

at A and B and ensure their absolute synchronization. When we send a
laser pulse from location A to B, we can arrange to record the up-link
pulse propagation time Tu from the instantaneous transmission and
reception time readout of the atomic clocks A and B respectively.
Similarly we can record the down-link time Td for the pulse
propagation from B to A.

 IF we assume that Earth is a stationary system and that A and B are
perpendicular to Earth's (flat) surface, and IF we ignore the effects
of the different strength of gravity at A compared to at B, then Tu
would be equal to Td.

> < As per Relativity, the up-link signal propagation time Tu is SUPPOSED to be equal to the down-link signal propagation time Td in any

stationary reference frame when the two clocks A and B are stationary
in that reference frame (Tu = Td). >

  The two times WOULD be equal if the clocks were at rest in any
stationary ystem regardless of the direction of a line joining the
two.

> < But when the two clocks are moving along AB with a common velocity U, the up-link and down-link signal propagation times will no longer be equal (Tu <> Td). >

 That's right, although it is wrong.
(If you find that ambiguous, note that so is your "absolute
synchronization". If you use Einstein's method of setting clocks then
stationary clocks WOULD measure Tu as identical to Td.  But if you
esynch clocks of a moving system, i.e. set them to MEASURE the speed
of light as identical in any and all directions, they will do so even
though the actual times are not equal.

> < However, when the two clocks A and B are SIMULTANEOUSLY at rest in the local or Lab
> frame and in motion in the BCRF and the Galactic reference frames, the up-link and down-link signal propagation times Tu and Td will be required to be simultaneously equal and unequal at the same time.

  "Simultaneously" as measured by who, and how?
If you mean "at the same instant", then yes; Tu will be equal to Td as
plotted by an esynched moving system even though they won't be equal
as plotted by a differently moving system. Indeed that is the entire
meaning of Einstein's long equation immediately prior to his setting
x' "infinitesimally small".

> < If you can make two physical measurements Tu and Td to be equal and unequal at the same time, will you call it Relativity or Witchcraft? >

 Yes. And No. (It depends on what you mean by "at the 'same
time'" :-).

glird


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GSS  
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 More options Nov 7, 3:02 am
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.physics.particle, sci.math
From: GSS <gurcharn_san...@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 07:32:34 -0800 (PST)
Local: Sat, Nov 7 2009 3:02 am
Subject: Re: Call for a Paradigm Shift in Fundamental Physics
On Nov 6, 6:57 am, glird <gl...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Nov 5, 10:02 am, GSS wrote:

> > < I hope you are aware that any shrinkage or
>  expansion of a spatial length always induces
>  a strain field in the region and that all
>  strain fields are subjected to certain
>  physical constraints like continuity of
>  associated displacements and equilibrium of
>  associated stresses. >

>   In his 1904 paper Lorentz showed that the opposite is correct, i.e.
> that objects shrink in order to ELIMINATE what would otherwise have
> been a strain in the local material field.

That is not quite correct.
Consider the boundary surface of a solid object in its normal state
when it is free from all strains and stresses. Once you alter or
deform the shape of this boundary surface in any way, internal strains
are bound to develop with in the body of that object. However, if
instead of deforming the boundary surface, you induce internal strains
within the  body by either temperature changes or through the action
of body forces, then the internal stresses will tend to get partially
dissipated through induced alteration in the boundary surface. But
once the boundary surface gets deformed from its normal 'strain-free'
state, internal body strains will always be present (unless the body
undergoes plastic deformation).

> > < Consider a steel rod of length L laid along X-axis of a stationary reference frame K. Suppose there are n 'witches' (W1, W2, W3, ..., Wn) flying along the X-axis at uniform velocities of V1, V2, V3,...,Vn respectively. If we assume that the length L of the steel rod will actually become L1 for witch W1, L2 for W2, L3 for W3 and Ln for the witch Wn, will you call it Witchcraft or Relativity? >

>   No; I would call it defective semantics.
> (The length of a stationary rod won't "actually become" a function of
> which witch is looking at it; it will only APPEAR to be deformed as
> measured with the help of esynched clocks of each witch's system.

You have made an important point that length L of the steel rod will
not "actually become" L1, L2 etc. but will only APPEAR to become L1,
L2 etc. That means the length L is the "actual" or proper length of
the steel rod and the lengths L1, L2 etc. are the APPARENT lengths as
seen by W1, W2 etc.

It is said that appearances can be deceptive. Similarly apparent
values of physical parameters can also be deceptive. For example we
see the sun rise from east and set in the west, apparently traversing
a circular arc of about 150 million km radius in 12 hours. Thus the
sun 'appears' to move in the sky with an apparent speed of about 10000
km/s which is quite misleading. Further, the moon 'appears' to be much
bigger in size than any of the stars. These apparent sizes of the moon
and the stars are obviously quite misleading. Naturally if someone
makes use of apparent values of physical parameters to develop a
theory, such a theory is bound to be misleading. As per your own
statement, L1, L2 etc. in the above example are only apparent values.
Thus the Lorentz transformation which deals with such apparent values
of physical parameters should obviously be branded as misleading.
Shouldn't therefore SR too be branded as misleading?

I have already stated above that "Let us position two identical atomic
clocks at A and B and ensure their absolute synchronization. "
Perhaps you did not read my earlier post dated Nov 3, carefully
because I have already ruled out Einstein synchronization in the
proposed experiment. Therefore, let me reproduce it again,

[For proper conduct of the proposed experiment, the precision atomic
clocks located at fixed points A and B are required to be in 'absolute
synchronization' rather than the 'Einstein synchronization'. However,
achieving 'absolute synchronization' for the spatially separated
precision atomic clocks is rendered difficult, firstly by the inherent
clock drift and secondly by the same absolute motion which is intended
to be detected by the proposed experiment. But the 'plus' point of
this very situation is that once we establish the absolute motion of
earth in space, 'absolute synchronization' of spacecraft atomic clocks
will become practically feasible in future.]

[The first option in the present case is to use two precision atomic
clocks which are initially synchronized at one common place and then
positioned at the fixed locations A and B. For the success of this
method, the inherent drift in each of the two clocks must be within
one nanosecond over 24 hour period.]

[For the second option, consider two Rubidium atomic clocks A and B,
each connected through an optical fiber link to a Master atomic clock
C such that the optical length of the fiber link from C to A is the
same as that from C to B. Let the two clocks A and B be perfectly
synchronized with master clock C with a timing resolution of about one
nanosecond. Here the term 'perfectly synchronized' implies that when
the clock C reads UTC time t1, the clocks A and B will also read t1.
Therefore, it is obvious that the clocks A and B can be regarded as
mutually synchronized in absolute terms as long as they are both
perfectly synchronized with a common master clock C, even if the
master clock C does not depict the perfect UTC time.]

[For the third option, we may replace the master clock C with the GPS
synchronized time. Therefore, we can use two Rubidium atomic clocks A
and B, each synchronized to the GPS time within one nanosecond
resolution. Once the clocks A and B  get perfectly synchronized to the
GPS time, they can be regarded as mutually synchronized in absolute
terms, regardless of the inherent limitations or inaccuracies of the
GPS timing system. I consider the third option to be practically most
suitable for the proposed experiment.]

> > < However, when the two clocks A and B are SIMULTANEOUSLY at rest in the local or Lab frame and in motion in the BCRF and the Galactic reference frames, the up-link and down-link signal propagation times Tu and Td will be required to be simultaneously equal and unequal at the same time.>

>   "Simultaneously" as measured by who, and how?

The term "simultaneously" is used here in the usual sense as conveyed
by the following illustrations:

The earth moves in its orbital motion around the sun while it
"simultaneously" rotates about its axis.

The sun is almost fixed in the Barycentric Celestial Reference Frame
(BCRF) while it is "simultaneously" in motion in the Galactic
Reference Frame.

> If you mean "at the same instant", then yes; Tu will be equal to Td as
> plotted by an esynched moving system even though they won't be equal
> as plotted by a differently moving system. Indeed that is the entire
> meaning of Einstein's long equation immediately prior to his setting
> x' "infinitesimally small".

Again I am not referring to any "esynched" clocks. I am referring to
digital readouts of instantaneous timing events, as recorded in the
system computers. The up-link (Tu) and down-link (Td) signal
propagation times are recorded in computer memory in real time and
these values correspond to unique physical parameters.

What you seem to be unable to understand is that while the clocks A
and B are seen to be at rest in the local or the Lab frame, they are
"simultaneously" seen to be in motion in BCRF. When Tu and Td are
supposed to be equal in the Lab frame (as per SR), they are
"simultaneously" required to be un-equal in the BCRF (as per SR) since
they are in motion in BCRF.

> > < If you can make two physical measurements Tu and Td to be equal and unequal at the same time, will you call it Relativity or Witchcraft? >

>  Yes. And No. (It depends on what you mean by "at the 'same
> time'" :-).

> glird

Well, if you say Yes and No at the same time, you must be a
Relativist!!

GSS
http://book.fundamentalphysics.info


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GSS  
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 More options Nov 10, 11:56 pm
Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity, sci.physics, sci.astro, sci.physics.particle, sci.math
From: GSS <gurcharn_san...@yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:26:56 -0800 (PST)
Local: Tues, Nov 10 2009 11:56 pm
Subject: Re: Call for a Paradigm Shift in Fundamental Physics
On Nov 6, 8:32 pm, GSS <gurcharn_san...@yahoo.com> wrote:

However, Relativity experts will still wriggle out of this
embarrassing situation regarding misleading nature of Relativity. As
per them, the length L of the steel rod, in a stationary reference
frame K, does not "actually become" L1 but only "APPEARS to become" L1
when "MEASURED" by a moving observer W1.

This stance of Relativity experts needs to be critically examined.
When we measure the length L of a steel rod, we get the result of
measurement in certain length units, say 3 meters. If we use some
standard length unit Lu (like a meter rod or a foot ruler) to measure
the given length L of the steel rod, then the result of the
measurement will be stated as "n Lu" where n is a real number.  That
is to say, length L is equal to n times Lu, where
        n = L/Lu    .... (1)
This measurement process can even be automated with some robotic
system and the result of measurement "n" can be recorded in the system
computer.

Now consider the situation where a moving observer W1 finds that the
length L of the steel rod APPEARS to have become L1, such that
L1=q.L . Obviously however, when L appears to become q.L, the standard
length unit Lu will also appear to become q.Lu, so that the standard
measurement process will again yield the same measure number n as,
   n = q.L/(q.Lu)     ....  (2)
This shows that, had the moving observer W1 experienced a simple
"apparent reduction" in length of the stationary steel rod, then a
similar "apparent reduction" in the standard length unit (say a meter
rod) would have left the final "measurement reading" n, of the length
of the steel rod, totally unaffected.

But this is not what is intended in Relativity. So the Relativity
experts then introduce a special "MEASUREMENT PROCEDURE" which yields
a reduction in "measurement reading" when the length of the steel rod
fixed in a stationary reference frame is "measured" by a moving
observer W1. As per this special "measurement procedure" the moving
observer W1 will have to use a standard length unit Lu which is "co-
moving" with the observer (or at rest in the observer's local frame)
to effect the measurement of the steel rod of length L in the
stationary reference frame K. This special measurement process will
yield a different measure number n' as,
    n' = q.L/(Lu)  = q.n   ...... (3)
This special "measurement procedure" to be used by the moving observer
W1, turns out to be fully compatible with the mathematical structure
of Relativity.

However, such a special "measurement procedure" in which a moving
observer "measures" the length of a stationary steel rod by using a
"moving" length unit Lu, is practically not feasible, even with the
use of modern cutting edge technology. It is a fact that such a
special "measurement procedure", in which the length of a stationary
steel rod could be measured by using a "moving" length unit Lu, has
neither been actually used nor can ever be used even in principle. At
the most such a special "measurement procedure" could be described as
hypothetical.

Hence the Special theory of Relativity (SR), which employs such
special "measurement procedures" can at the most be regarded as a
hypothetical mathematical model and not a physical theory.

GSS
http://book.fundamentalphysics.info


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