Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency cert rigamaroo.
Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench supplies. We can't really use this particular type because it's not corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride. Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table>
> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. > 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but > this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency > cert rigamaroo.
> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think > farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power > generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load > transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, > cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in > hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right > now.
> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had > some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench > supplies. We can't really use this particular type because it's not > corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip right off during the first > dirt road ride. Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on > table>
>Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. >15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but >this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency >cert rigamaroo.
>Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load >transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, >cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in >hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
>Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had some >bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench supplies. We >can't really use this particular type because it's not corner-pinned and >only four pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride. >Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table>
We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't know if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input EMI filters) for $44.
>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. >> 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but >> this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency >> cert rigamaroo.
>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load >> transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, >> cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in >> hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right >> now.
>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had >> some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench >> supplies. We can't really use this particular type because it's not >> corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip right off during the first >> dirt road ride. Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on >> table>
> Astrodyne, I've never see a failure with their switchers.
Thanks, Martin, now I remember that brand. I think they sell directly and not via distributors. Looks like they only sell versions of open frames that must be screwed on:
John Larkin wrote: > On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> > wrote:
>> Gents,
>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. >> 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but >> this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency >> cert rigamaroo.
>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load >> transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, >> cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in >> hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had some >> bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench supplies. We >> can't really use this particular type because it's not corner-pinned and >> only four pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride. >> Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table>
> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't know > if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of > board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar Cincon:
> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input EMI > filters) for $44.
Where do you buy yours from?
> Can you use an external wart?
Nope, has to go onto the board. The problem with bolt-down is the extra hassle and cost in assembly, plus bolts can come loose. Board space isn't really lost because the supplies ride one or two tenths above so you can place stuff underneath as long as it's not fat inductors.
PCB mount would be really nice if they had a few more dummy pins or at least positioned the pins in the four corners so you get less vibration. But for reasons that completely elude me they don't.
>John Larkin wrote: >> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >> wrote:
>>> Gents,
>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. >>> 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but >>> this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency >>> cert rigamaroo.
>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >>> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >>> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load >>> transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, >>> cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in >>> hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had some >>> bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench supplies. We >>> can't really use this particular type because it's not corner-pinned and >>> only four pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride. >>> Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table>
>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't know >> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of >> board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is footprint-compatible >to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar Cincon:
John Larkin wrote: > On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> > wrote:
>> John Larkin wrote: >>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>> wrote:
>>>> Gents,
>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. >>>> 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but >>>> this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency >>>> cert rigamaroo.
>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >>>> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >>>> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load >>>> transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, >>>> cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in >>>> hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had some >>>> bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench supplies. We >>>> can't really use this particular type because it's not corner-pinned and >>>> only four pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride. >>>> Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table> >>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't know >>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of >>> board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is footprint-compatible >> to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar Cincon:
>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input EMI >>> filters) for $44.
>> Where do you buy yours from?
> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more > expensive.
Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do not look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. Maybe we can spritz some goo underneath.
>John Larkin wrote: >> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >> wrote:
>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> Gents,
>>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. >>>>> 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but >>>>> this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency >>>>> cert rigamaroo.
>>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >>>>> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >>>>> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load >>>>> transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, >>>>> cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in >>>>> hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
>>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had some >>>>> bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench supplies. We >>>>> can't really use this particular type because it's not corner-pinned and >>>>> only four pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride. >>>>> Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table> >>>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't know >>>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of >>>> board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is footprint-compatible >>> to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar Cincon:
>>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input EMI >>>> filters) for $44.
>>> Where do you buy yours from?
>> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more >> expensive.
>Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell NFM-15 >series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do not look good >though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. Maybe we can spritz some >goo underneath.
John Larkin wrote: > On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> > wrote:
>> John Larkin wrote: >>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>> wrote:
>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. >>>>>> 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but >>>>>> this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency >>>>>> cert rigamaroo.
>>>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >>>>>> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >>>>>> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load >>>>>> transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, >>>>>> cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in >>>>>> hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
>>>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had some >>>>>> bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench supplies. We >>>>>> can't really use this particular type because it's not corner-pinned and >>>>>> only four pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride. >>>>>> Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table> >>>>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't know >>>>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of >>>>> board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>>>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is footprint-compatible >>>> to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar Cincon:
>>>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input EMI >>>>> filters) for $44.
>>>> Where do you buy yours from? >>> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more >>> expensive.
>> Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell NFM-15 >> series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do not look good >> though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. Maybe we can spritz some >> goo underneath.
> RTV the wiggly parts.
Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on four puny pins ;-)
Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
> John Larkin wrote: >> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >> wrote:
>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide >>>>>>> range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own >>>>>>> switchers but this time it's too small a production volume to go >>>>>>> through the agency cert rigamaroo.
>>>>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >>>>>>> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >>>>>>> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of >>>>>>> load transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As >>>>>>> usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain >>>>>>> below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day >>>>>>> but not right now.
>>>>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had >>>>>>> some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench >>>>>>> supplies. We can't really use this particular type because it's not >>>>>>> corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip right off during the >>>>>>> first dirt road ride. Beats me why they always do that ... <banging >>>>>>> head on table> >>>>>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't >>>>>> know >>>>>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of >>>>>> board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>>>>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is >>>>> footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar >>>>> Cincon:
>>>>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input EMI >>>>>> filters) for $44.
>>>>> Where do you buy yours from? >>>> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more >>>> expensive.
>>> Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell NFM-15 >>> series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do not look good >>> though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. Maybe we can spritz some >>> goo underneath.
>> RTV the wiggly parts.
> Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on four > puny pins ;-)
> Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > Use another domain or send PM.
I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose. When the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and become a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the transformer down to the board but they still broke loose. I started using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams up. 362 units later and not a single failure.
Herman wrote: > "Joerg" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message > news:7leusoFmufisU1@mid.individual.net... >> John Larkin wrote: >>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>> wrote:
>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide >>>>>>>> range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own >>>>>>>> switchers but this time it's too small a production volume to go >>>>>>>> through the agency cert rigamaroo.
>>>>>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >>>>>>>> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >>>>>>>> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of >>>>>>>> load transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As >>>>>>>> usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain >>>>>>>> below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day >>>>>>>> but not right now.
>>>>>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>>>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had >>>>>>>> some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench >>>>>>>> supplies. We can't really use this particular type because it's not >>>>>>>> corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip right off during the >>>>>>>> first dirt road ride. Beats me why they always do that ... <banging >>>>>>>> head on table> >>>>>>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of >>>>>>> board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>>>>>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is >>>>>> footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar >>>>>> Cincon:
>>>>>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input EMI >>>>>>> filters) for $44.
>>>>>> Where do you buy yours from? >>>>> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more >>>>> expensive.
>>>> Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell NFM-15 >>>> series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do not look good >>>> though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. Maybe we can spritz some >>>> goo underneath. >>> RTV the wiggly parts.
>> Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on four >> puny pins ;-)
>> Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >> Use another domain or send PM.
> I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose. When > the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and become a > bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the transformer > down to the board but they still broke loose. I started using "Gorilla > Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams up. 362 units later and > not a single failure.
Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a wee bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, well, flex a bit versus each other.
>"Joerg" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >news:7leusoFmufisU1@mid.individual.net... >> John Larkin wrote: >>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>> wrote:
>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide >>>>>>>> range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own >>>>>>>> switchers but this time it's too small a production volume to go >>>>>>>> through the agency cert rigamaroo.
>>>>>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >>>>>>>> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >>>>>>>> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of >>>>>>>> load transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As >>>>>>>> usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain >>>>>>>> below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day >>>>>>>> but not right now.
>>>>>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>>>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had >>>>>>>> some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench >>>>>>>> supplies. We can't really use this particular type because it's not >>>>>>>> corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip right off during the >>>>>>>> first dirt road ride. Beats me why they always do that ... <banging >>>>>>>> head on table> >>>>>>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't >>>>>>> know >>>>>>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of >>>>>>> board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>>>>>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is >>>>>> footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar >>>>>> Cincon:
>>>>>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input EMI >>>>>>> filters) for $44.
>>>>>> Where do you buy yours from? >>>>> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more >>>>> expensive.
>>>> Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell NFM-15 >>>> series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do not look good >>>> though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. Maybe we can spritz some >>>> goo underneath.
>>> RTV the wiggly parts.
>> Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on four >> puny pins ;-)
>> Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >> Use another domain or send PM.
>I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose. When >the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and become a >bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the transformer >down to the board but they still broke loose. I started using "Gorilla >Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams up. 362 units later and >not a single failure.
Sounds good. Is there an adequate UL flammability rating on that stuff?
>Herman wrote: >> "Joerg" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >> news:7leusoFmufisU1@mid.individual.net... >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide >>>>>>>>> range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own >>>>>>>>> switchers but this time it's too small a production volume to go >>>>>>>>> through the agency cert rigamaroo.
>>>>>>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >>>>>>>>> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >>>>>>>>> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of >>>>>>>>> load transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As >>>>>>>>> usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain >>>>>>>>> below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day >>>>>>>>> but not right now.
>>>>>>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>>>>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had >>>>>>>>> some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench >>>>>>>>> supplies. We can't really use this particular type because it's not >>>>>>>>> corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip right off during the >>>>>>>>> first dirt road ride. Beats me why they always do that ... <banging >>>>>>>>> head on table> >>>>>>>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of >>>>>>>> board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>>>>>>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is >>>>>>> footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar >>>>>>> Cincon:
>>>>>>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input EMI >>>>>>>> filters) for $44.
>>>>>>> Where do you buy yours from? >>>>>> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more >>>>>> expensive.
>>>>> Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell NFM-15 >>>>> series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do not look good >>>>> though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. Maybe we can spritz some >>>>> goo underneath. >>>> RTV the wiggly parts.
>>> Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on four >>> puny pins ;-)
>>> Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>> Use another domain or send PM.
>> I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose. When >> the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and become a >> bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the transformer >> down to the board but they still broke loose. I started using "Gorilla >> Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams up. 362 units later and >> not a single failure.
>Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
>They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a wee >bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, well, flex >a bit versus each other.
John Larkin wrote: > On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:55:44 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> > wrote:
>> Herman wrote: >>> "Joerg" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>> news:7leusoFmufisU1@mid.individual.net... >>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>>>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide >>>>>>>>>> range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own >>>>>>>>>> switchers but this time it's too small a production volume to go >>>>>>>>>> through the agency cert rigamaroo.
>>>>>>>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >>>>>>>>>> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >>>>>>>>>> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of >>>>>>>>>> load transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As >>>>>>>>>> usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain >>>>>>>>>> below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day >>>>>>>>>> but not right now.
>>>>>>>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>>>>>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had >>>>>>>>>> some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench >>>>>>>>>> supplies. We can't really use this particular type because it's not >>>>>>>>>> corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip right off during the >>>>>>>>>> first dirt road ride. Beats me why they always do that ... <banging >>>>>>>>>> head on table> >>>>>>>>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of >>>>>>>>> board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>>>>>>>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is >>>>>>>> footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar >>>>>>>> Cincon:
>>>>>>>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input EMI >>>>>>>>> filters) for $44.
>>>>>>>> Where do you buy yours from? >>>>>>> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more >>>>>>> expensive.
>>>>>> Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell NFM-15 >>>>>> series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do not look good >>>>>> though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. Maybe we can spritz some >>>>>> goo underneath. >>>>> RTV the wiggly parts.
>>>> Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on four >>>> puny pins ;-)
>>>> Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>> I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose. When >>> the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and become a >>> bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the transformer >>> down to the board but they still broke loose. I started using "Gorilla >>> Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams up. 362 units later and >>> not a single failure.
>> Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
>> They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a wee >> bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, well, flex >> a bit versus each other.
> Serious double-stick foam tape might be good.
Yeah, like the kind that rock bands use to stick their cables onto concrete :-)
However, these supplies have stepped pins and there seems to be a large gap between SMPS board and circuit board. Around 2/10" or so. So it would have to be pretty thick foam tape. Plus it can't have as much compliance as, for example, weather stripping because then it wouldn't protect much against ripping the SMPS off during a fall.
It would have been so easy if they had just added half a dozen dummy pins for extra mechanical support. The alternative would be to reduce the gap substantially but that requires rework, prying the pins from the SMPS, replacing with shorter-stepped ones and thus voiding the warranty.
> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. > 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but > this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency > cert rigamaroo.
> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think > farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power > generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load > transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, > cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in > hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had some > bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench supplies. We > can't really use this particular type because it's not corner-pinned and > only four pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride. > Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table>
> --
RS has traco power TMP 15112 (12V,15W) for ~30€ in ones
pins are not quite in the corners for 15W, 30 watt is
it has threaded holes for two screws in the bottom
>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. >> 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but >> this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency >> cert rigamaroo.
>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load >> transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, >> cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in >> hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had some >> bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench supplies. We >> can't really use this particular type because it's not corner-pinned and >> only four pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride. >> Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table>
>> --
> RS has traco power TMP 15112 (12V,15W) for ~30€ in ones
> pins are not quite in the corners for 15W, 30 watt is
> it has threaded holes for two screws in the bottom
Thanks, Lasse, looks like a good one and John's supplier PowerGate has them:
If they sell those for around $20 in hundreds that would be nice but could be a stretch. In case anyone else needs this stuff here is the spec sheet with the mechanical details:
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:58:37 -0800, Joerg wrote: > John Larkin wrote: >> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:55:44 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >> wrote:
>>> Herman wrote: >>>> "Joerg" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>> news:7leusoFmufisU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg >>>>>>>> <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg >>>>>>>>>> <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>>>>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC >>>>>>>>>>> wide range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my >>>>>>>>>>> own switchers but this time it's too small a production volume >>>>>>>>>>> to go through the agency cert rigamaroo.
>>>>>>>>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. >>>>>>>>>>> Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old >>>>>>>>>>> emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and >>>>>>>>>>> so on. Plus tons of load transients from motors being turned >>>>>>>>>>> on and off right there. As usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec >>>>>>>>>>> stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS >>>>>>>>>>> will probably be needed some day but not right now.
>>>>>>>>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>>>>>>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although >>>>>>>>>>> I had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their >>>>>>>>>>> lab bench supplies. We can't really use this particular type >>>>>>>>>>> because it's not corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip >>>>>>>>>>> right off during the first dirt road ride. Beats me why they >>>>>>>>>>> always do that ... <banging head on table> >>>>>>>>>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I >>>>>>>>>> don't know >>>>>>>>>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot >>>>>>>>>> of board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is >>>>>>>>> footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar >>>>>>>>> Cincon:
>>>>>>>>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with >>>>>>>>>> input EMI filters) for $44.
>>>>>>>>> Where do you buy yours from? >>>>>>>> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more >>>>>>>> expensive.
>>>>>>> Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell >>>>>>> NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do >>>>>>> not look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. >>>>>>> Maybe we can spritz some goo underneath. >>>>>> RTV the wiggly parts.
>>>>> Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on >>>>> four puny pins ;-)
>>>>> Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
>>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain >>>>> or send PM. >>>> I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose. >>>> When the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and >>>> become a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the >>>> transformer down to the board but they still broke loose. I started >>>> using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams >>>> up. 362 units later and not a single failure.
>>> Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
>>> They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a wee >>> bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, well, >>> flex a bit versus each other.
>> Serious double-stick foam tape might be good.
> Yeah, like the kind that rock bands use to stick their cables onto > concrete :-)
> However, these supplies have stepped pins and there seems to be a large > gap between SMPS board and circuit board. Around 2/10" or so. So it > would have to be pretty thick foam tape. Plus it can't have as much > compliance as, for example, weather stripping because then it wouldn't > protect much against ripping the SMPS off during a fall.
> It would have been so easy if they had just added half a dozen dummy > pins for extra mechanical support. The alternative would be to reduce > the gap substantially but that requires rework, prying the pins from the > SMPS, replacing with shorter-stepped ones and thus voiding the warranty.
Joe Chisolm wrote: > On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 08:58:37 -0800, Joerg wrote:
>> John Larkin wrote: >>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:55:44 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>> wrote:
>>>> Herman wrote: >>>>> "Joerg" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>>> news:7leusoFmufisU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg >>>>>>>>> <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg >>>>>>>>>>> <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>>>>>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC >>>>>>>>>>>> wide range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my >>>>>>>>>>>> own switchers but this time it's too small a production volume >>>>>>>>>>>> to go through the agency cert rigamaroo.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. >>>>>>>>>>>> Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old >>>>>>>>>>>> emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and >>>>>>>>>>>> so on. Plus tons of load transients from motors being turned >>>>>>>>>>>> on and off right there. As usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec >>>>>>>>>>>> stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS >>>>>>>>>>>> will probably be needed some day but not right now.
>>>>>>>>>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>>>>>>>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although >>>>>>>>>>>> I had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their >>>>>>>>>>>> lab bench supplies. We can't really use this particular type >>>>>>>>>>>> because it's not corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip >>>>>>>>>>>> right off during the first dirt road ride. Beats me why they >>>>>>>>>>>> always do that ... <banging head on table> >>>>>>>>>>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I >>>>>>>>>>> don't know >>>>>>>>>>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot >>>>>>>>>>> of board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is >>>>>>>>>> footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar >>>>>>>>>> Cincon:
>>>>>>>>>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with >>>>>>>>>>> input EMI filters) for $44.
>>>>>>>>>> Where do you buy yours from? >>>>>>>>> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more >>>>>>>>> expensive.
>>>>>>>> Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell >>>>>>>> NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do >>>>>>>> not look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. >>>>>>>> Maybe we can spritz some goo underneath. >>>>>>> RTV the wiggly parts.
>>>>>> Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on >>>>>> four puny pins ;-)
>>>>>> Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
>>>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. Use another domain >>>>>> or send PM. >>>>> I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose. >>>>> When the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and >>>>> become a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the >>>>> transformer down to the board but they still broke loose. I started >>>>> using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams >>>>> up. 362 units later and not a single failure.
>>>> Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
>>>> They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a wee >>>> bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, well, >>>> flex a bit versus each other. >>> Serious double-stick foam tape might be good.
>> Yeah, like the kind that rock bands use to stick their cables onto >> concrete :-)
>> However, these supplies have stepped pins and there seems to be a large >> gap between SMPS board and circuit board. Around 2/10" or so. So it >> would have to be pretty thick foam tape. Plus it can't have as much >> compliance as, for example, weather stripping because then it wouldn't >> protect much against ripping the SMPS off during a fall.
>> It would have been so easy if they had just added half a dozen dummy >> pins for extra mechanical support. The alternative would be to reduce >> the gap substantially but that requires rework, prying the pins from the >> SMPS, replacing with shorter-stepped ones and thus voiding the warranty.
Thanks, Joe. Seems that they are a bit too thin but it's hard to get to tech data there. A classic example for the topic "How not to design a web site" :-)
>Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. >15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but >this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency >cert rigamaroo.
>Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load >transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, >cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in >hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
>Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
Back in the old days I used Melcher (now Powerone) a lot.
-- Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply indicates you are not using the right tools... "If it doesn't fit, use a bigger hammer!" --------------------------------------------------------------
>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. >> 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but >> this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency >> cert rigamaroo.
>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think >> farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power >> generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load >> transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, >> cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in >> hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
> Back in the old days I used Melcher (now Powerone) a lot.
I still do (their linear supplies). But AFAICT they don't have much AC/DC in terms of board mount, only chassis mount.
Joerg wrote: > John Larkin wrote: >> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 07:55:44 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >> wrote:
>>> Herman wrote: >>>> "Joerg" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>> news:7leusoFmufisU1@mid.individual.net... >>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg >>>>>>>>>> <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>>>>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC >>>>>>>>>>> wide range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled >>>>>>>>>>> my own switchers but this time it's too small a production >>>>>>>>>>> volume to go through the agency cert rigamaroo.
>>>>>>>>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" >>>>>>>>>>> environments. Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, >>>>>>>>>>> raggedy old emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old arc >>>>>>>>>>> welder, and so on. Plus tons of load transients from motors >>>>>>>>>>> being turned on and off right there. As usual, cost is an >>>>>>>>>>> issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in >>>>>>>>>>> hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not >>>>>>>>>>> right now.
>>>>>>>>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>>>>>>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although >>>>>>>>>>> I had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their >>>>>>>>>>> lab bench supplies. We can't really use this particular type >>>>>>>>>>> because it's not corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip >>>>>>>>>>> right off during the first dirt road ride. Beats me why they >>>>>>>>>>> always do that ... <banging head on table> >>>>>>>>>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I >>>>>>>>>> don't know >>>>>>>>>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of >>>>>>>>>> board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>>>>>>>>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is >>>>>>>>> footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably >>>>>>>>> similar Cincon:
>>>>>>>>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with >>>>>>>>>> input EMI >>>>>>>>>> filters) for $44.
>>>>>>>>> Where do you buy yours from? >>>>>>>> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more >>>>>>>> expensive.
>>>>>>> Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell >>>>>>> NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do >>>>>>> not look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. >>>>>>> Maybe we can spritz some goo underneath. >>>>>> RTV the wiggly parts.
>>>>> Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on >>>>> four puny pins ;-)
>>>>> Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
>>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>>> I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing >>>> loose. When the device was dropped, the transformer would break >>>> loose and become a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried >>>> tie-wrapping the transformer down to the board but they still broke >>>> loose. I started using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates with >>>> water and foams up. 362 units later and not a single failure. >>> Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
>>> They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a >>> wee bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, >>> well, flex a bit versus each other.
>> Serious double-stick foam tape might be good.
> Yeah, like the kind that rock bands use to stick their cables onto > concrete :-)
> However, these supplies have stepped pins and there seems to be a large > gap between SMPS board and circuit board. Around 2/10" or so. So it > would have to be pretty thick foam tape. Plus it can't have as much > compliance as, for example, weather stripping because then it wouldn't > protect much against ripping the SMPS off during a fall.
> It would have been so easy if they had just added half a dozen dummy > pins for extra mechanical support. The alternative would be to reduce > the gap substantially but that requires rework, prying the pins from the > SMPS, replacing with shorter-stepped ones and thus voiding the warranty.
Gorilla glue sounds like good medicine then. Maybe apply a bit of preload so that the glue is in tension.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
-- Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal ElectroOptical Innovations 55 Orchard Rd Briarcliff Manor NY 10510 845-480-2058 hobbs at electrooptical dot net http://electrooptical.net
>>>>> I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing >>>>> loose. When the device was dropped, the transformer would break >>>>> loose and become a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried >>>>> tie-wrapping the transformer down to the board but they still broke >>>>> loose. I started using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates >>>>> with water and foams up. 362 units later and not a single failure. >>>> Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
>>>> They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a >>>> wee bit of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, >>>> well, flex a bit versus each other.
>>> Serious double-stick foam tape might be good.
>> Yeah, like the kind that rock bands use to stick their cables onto >> concrete :-)
>> However, these supplies have stepped pins and there seems to be a >> large gap between SMPS board and circuit board. Around 2/10" or so. So >> it would have to be pretty thick foam tape. Plus it can't have as much >> compliance as, for example, weather stripping because then it wouldn't >> protect much against ripping the SMPS off during a fall.
>> It would have been so easy if they had just added half a dozen dummy >> pins for extra mechanical support. The alternative would be to reduce >> the gap substantially but that requires rework, prying the pins from >> the SMPS, replacing with shorter-stepped ones and thus voiding the >> warranty.
> Gorilla glue sounds like good medicine then. Maybe apply a bit of > preload so that the glue is in tension.
Preload is going to be a problem with these supplies because the pins are tapered sharply. So they come to rest at a certain height above board. The only way to apply preload would be to flex the whole thing which is a bit scary.
But Gorilla glue does sound like good medicine. Probably better than the Chinese tar blob stuff.
> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide range. > 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own switchers but > this time it's too small a production volume to go through the agency > cert rigamaroo.
> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. Think > farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old emergency power > generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so on. Plus tons of load > transients from motors being turned on and off right there. As usual, > cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is out. Has to remain below $20 in > hundreds qties. RoHS will probably be needed some day but not right now.
> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I had some > bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab bench supplies. We > can't really use this particular type because it's not corner-pinned and > only four pins, will rip right off during the first dirt road ride. > Beats me why they always do that ... <banging head on table>
> -- >RS has traco power TMP 15112 (12V,15W) for ~30€ in ones
>pins are not quite in the corners for 15W, 30 watt is
>it has threaded holes for two screws in the bottom
>-Lasse
I'll second Traco. We use then in portable test boxs all the time and they are bricks.
> Herman wrote: >> "Joerg" <inva...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >> news:7leusoFmufisU1@mid.individual.net... >>> John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:51:05 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide >>>>>>>>> range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own >>>>>>>>> switchers but this time it's too small a production volume to go >>>>>>>>> through the agency cert rigamaroo.
>>>>>>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. >>>>>>>>> Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old >>>>>>>>> emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so >>>>>>>>> on. Plus tons of load transients from motors being turned on and >>>>>>>>> off right there. As usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is >>>>>>>>> out. Has to remain below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS will probably >>>>>>>>> be needed some day but not right now.
>>>>>>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>>>>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I >>>>>>>>> had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab >>>>>>>>> bench supplies. We can't really use this particular type because >>>>>>>>> it's not corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip right off >>>>>>>>> during the first dirt road ride. Beats me why they always do that >>>>>>>>> ... <banging head on table> >>>>>>>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't >>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of >>>>>>>> board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>>>>>>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is >>>>>>> footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar >>>>>>> Cincon:
>>>>>>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input >>>>>>>> EMI >>>>>>>> filters) for $44.
>>>>>>> Where do you buy yours from? >>>>>> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more >>>>>> expensive.
>>>>> Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell >>>>> NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do not >>>>> look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. Maybe we can >>>>> spritz some goo underneath. >>>> RTV the wiggly parts.
>>> Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on four >>> puny pins ;-)
>>> Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>> Use another domain or send PM.
>> I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose. >> When the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and become >> a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the >> transformer down to the board but they still broke loose. I started >> using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams up. >> 362 units later and not a single failure.
> Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
> They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a wee bit > of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, well, flex a bit > versus each other.
> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. > Use another domain or send PM.
That is the stuff. After the boards are cleaned and tested, I use a small brush and "paint" water around the perimeter of the transformer. Actually it will cure with the moisture in the air but will take much longer to cure. With the tip of the glue bottle with the smallest hole that will allow the glue to flow I place a bead of glue around the edge of the transformer. The glue flows under the transformer and after 5 to 10 minutes begins to foam. In an hour or so it is done. I never tried for flexibility. The cured glue can be cut with an exacto knife.
>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 18:05:56 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:23:59 -0800, Joerg <inva...@invalid.invalid> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Gents,
>>>>>>>>>> Looking for a small PCB-mounted power supply, 90VAC-260VAC wide >>>>>>>>>> range. 15-20W category, 12V. So far I've always rolled my own >>>>>>>>>> switchers but this time it's too small a production volume to go >>>>>>>>>> through the agency cert rigamaroo.
>>>>>>>>>> Long story short it's an application for "nasty" environments. >>>>>>>>>> Think farms, rural power grid, thunderstorms, raggedy old >>>>>>>>>> emergency power generators, uncle Leroy's old arc welder, and so >>>>>>>>>> on. Plus tons of load transients from motors being turned on and >>>>>>>>>> off right there. As usual, cost is an issue so mil-spec stuff is >>>>>>>>>> out. Has to remain below $20 in hundreds qties. RoHS will probably >>>>>>>>>> be needed some day but not right now.
>>>>>>>>>> Which brands/types/series are really reliable these days?
>>>>>>>>>> Lambda used to be a top-of-the-line company, AFAICT, although I >>>>>>>>>> had some bad luck of the phssst ... *POOF* kind with their lab >>>>>>>>>> bench supplies. We can't really use this particular type because >>>>>>>>>> it's not corner-pinned and only four pins, will rip right off >>>>>>>>>> during the first dirt road ride. Beats me why they always do that >>>>>>>>>> ... <banging head on table> >>>>>>>>> We've been very happy with MeanWell open-frame switchers. I don't >>>>>>>>> know >>>>>>>>> if they have PCB-mount stuff. PCB mount supplies take up a lot of >>>>>>>>> board area and can cause a lot of vibration problems.
>>>>>>>> Thanks, John. Mouser has one that looks like it is >>>>>>>> footprint-compatible to the Lambda and to the remarkably similar >>>>>>>> Cincon:
>>>>>>>>> We're getting their LPP-150-48 (150 watt PFC switcher with input >>>>>>>>> EMI >>>>>>>>> filters) for $44.
>>>>>>>> Where do you buy yours from? >>>>>>> Powergate LLC. Jameco and Mouser also have them, but are more >>>>>>> expensive.
>>>>>> Thanks. No prices on their web site but they've got the MeanWell >>>>>> NFM-15 series, so it's just a phone call. The vibration specs do not >>>>>> look good though. Dang, this thing would be almost ideal. Maybe we can >>>>>> spritz some goo underneath. >>>>> RTV the wiggly parts.
>>>> Well, the whole thing will be the wiggly part because it rides on four >>>> puny pins ;-)
>>>> Possibly squishing silicone under the four corners works.
>>>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >>>> Use another domain or send PM. >>> I had a problem with PC mounted transformers and them tearing loose. >>> When the device was dropped, the transformer would break loose and become >>> a bowling ball inside the enclosure. I tried tie-wrapping the >>> transformer down to the board but they still broke loose. I started >>> using "Gorilla Glue", the kind that activates with water and foams up. >>> 362 units later and not a single failure. >> Ah, thanks, here comes the hardcore practical stuff :-)
>> They also have an epoxy. What I'd need is something that retains a wee bit >> of flexibility because upon hard shocks the boards with, well, flex a bit >> versus each other.
>> "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam. >> Use another domain or send PM.
> That is the stuff. > After the boards are cleaned and tested, I use a small brush and "paint" > water around the perimeter of the transformer. Actually it will cure with > the moisture in the air but will take much longer to cure. With the tip of > the glue bottle with the smallest hole that will allow the glue to flow I > place a bead of glue around the edge of the transformer. The glue flows > under the transformer and after 5 to 10 minutes begins to foam. In an hour > or so it is done. I never tried for flexibility. The cured glue can be cut > with an exacto knife.
If it doesn't crumble under an Exacto knife it might have some flexibility. How does it feel when you press the Exacto knife onto it? Like porcelain, wood, or RTV?
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