Full Tilt Poker Game #15784367390: $2 + $0.25 Tournament (115566688), Table 14 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:40:50 ET - 2009/11/04 Seat 1: YOLT1 (2,445) Seat 2: the1captain (965) Seat 3: froskon (3,205) Seat 4: mvpmal (4,090) Seat 5: seabomb (2,250) Seat 6: DrBuddie (1,950) Seat 7: Emmary (2,930) Seat 8: DTown369 (2,350) Seat 9: The_Sorcerer (4,085) The_Sorcerer posts the small blind of 25 YOLT1 posts the big blind of 50 The button is in seat #8 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to The_Sorcerer [7s 8c] the1captain folds froskon folds mvpmal folds seabomb folds DrBuddie folds Emmary calls 50 DTown369 folds The_Sorcerer calls 25 YOLT1 checks *** FLOP *** [7h 8d 6s] The_Sorcerer checks YOLT1 bets 150 Emmary calls 150 The_Sorcerer raises to 4,035, and is all in YOLT1 calls 2,245, and is all in Emmary folds The_Sorcerer shows [7s 8c] YOLT1 shows [Th 5s] Uncalled bet of 1,640 returned to The_Sorcerer *** TURN *** [7h 8d 6s] [4h] *** RIVER *** [7h 8d 6s 4h] [9c] The_Sorcerer shows two pair, Eights and Sevens YOLT1 shows a straight, Ten high YOLT1 wins the pot (5,090) with a straight, Ten high *** SUMMARY *** Total pot 5,090 | Rake 0 Board: [7h 8d 6s 4h 9c] Seat 1: YOLT1 (big blind) showed [Th 5s] and won (5,090) with a straight, Ten high Seat 2: the1captain didn't bet (folded) Seat 3: froskon didn't bet (folded) Seat 4: mvpmal didn't bet (folded) Seat 5: seabomb didn't bet (folded) Seat 6: DrBuddie didn't bet (folded) Seat 7: Emmary folded on the Flop Seat 8: DTown369 (button) didn't bet (folded) Seat 9: The_Sorcerer (small blind) showed [7s 8c] and lost with two pair, Eights and Sevens
> "charrison100" <a11f...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message > news:uqd8s6xn66.ln2@recgroups.com... > > On Nov 4 2009 2:42 AM, Beldin the Sorcerer wrote:
> >> Full Tilt Poker Game #15784367390: $2 + $0.25 Tournament (115566688), > >> Table > >> 14 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:40:50 ET - 2009/11/04 > >> Seat 1: YOLT1 (2,445) > >> Seat 2: the1captain (965) > >> Seat 3: froskon (3,205) > >> Seat 4: mvpmal (4,090) > >> Seat 5: seabomb (2,250) > >> Seat 6: DrBuddie (1,950) > >> Seat 7: Emmary (2,930) > >> Seat 8: DTown369 (2,350) > >> Seat 9: The_Sorcerer (4,085) > >> The_Sorcerer posts the small blind of 25 > >> YOLT1 posts the big blind of 50 > >> The button is in seat #8 > >> *** HOLE CARDS *** > >> Dealt to The_Sorcerer [7s 8c] > >> the1captain folds > >> froskon folds > >> mvpmal folds > >> seabomb folds > >> DrBuddie folds > >> Emmary calls 50 > >> DTown369 folds > >> The_Sorcerer calls 25 > >> YOLT1 checks > >> *** FLOP *** [7h 8d 6s] > >> The_Sorcerer checks > >> YOLT1 bets 150 > >> Emmary calls 150 > >> The_Sorcerer raises to 4,035, and is all in > >> YOLT1 calls 2,245, and is all in > >> Emmary folds > >> The_Sorcerer shows [7s 8c] > >> YOLT1 shows [Th 5s] > >> Uncalled bet of 1,640 returned to The_Sorcerer > >> *** TURN *** [7h 8d 6s] [4h] > >> *** RIVER *** [7h 8d 6s 4h] [9c] > >> The_Sorcerer shows two pair, Eights and Sevens > >> YOLT1 shows a straight, Ten high > >> YOLT1 wins the pot (5,090) with a straight, Ten high > >> *** SUMMARY *** > >> Total pot 5,090 | Rake 0 > >> Board: [7h 8d 6s 4h 9c] > >> Seat 1: YOLT1 (big blind) showed [Th 5s] and won (5,090) with a straight, > >> Ten high > >> Seat 2: the1captain didn't bet (folded) > >> Seat 3: froskon didn't bet (folded) > >> Seat 4: mvpmal didn't bet (folded) > >> Seat 5: seabomb didn't bet (folded) > >> Seat 6: DrBuddie didn't bet (folded) > >> Seat 7: Emmary folded on the Flop > >> Seat 8: DTown369 (button) didn't bet (folded) > >> Seat 9: The_Sorcerer (small blind) showed [7s 8c] and lost with two pair, > >> Eights and Sevens
> > He saw a way to double up with a double gut shot and hit. He gambled and > > it paid of. Why are you surprised? > He coulda been drawing to a chop, and he's getting about 1.2-1
He saw something and flipped a coin. Downside he loses a cup of coffeee upside he doubles up and move on.
Not everyone at that level plays like the 2 has 5 zeros after it.
Chris
"Chris is loveable, but we all know he's not the brightest knife in the drawer." - Paul Popinjay, 08/31/2009
"Chris H. may be loveable, but he is one card short of getting two birds stoned." - Paul Popinjay, 10/20/2009
> On Nov 4 2009 9:12 AM, Beldin the Sorcerer wrote:
>> "charrison100" <a11f...@webnntp.invalid> wrote in message >> news:uqd8s6xn66.ln2@recgroups.com... >> > On Nov 4 2009 2:42 AM, Beldin the Sorcerer wrote:
>> >> Full Tilt Poker Game #15784367390: $2 + $0.25 Tournament (115566688), >> >> Table >> >> 14 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:40:50 ET - 2009/11/04 >> >> Seat 1: YOLT1 (2,445) >> >> Seat 2: the1captain (965) >> >> Seat 3: froskon (3,205) >> >> Seat 4: mvpmal (4,090) >> >> Seat 5: seabomb (2,250) >> >> Seat 6: DrBuddie (1,950) >> >> Seat 7: Emmary (2,930) >> >> Seat 8: DTown369 (2,350) >> >> Seat 9: The_Sorcerer (4,085) >> >> The_Sorcerer posts the small blind of 25 >> >> YOLT1 posts the big blind of 50 >> >> The button is in seat #8 >> >> *** HOLE CARDS *** >> >> Dealt to The_Sorcerer [7s 8c] >> >> the1captain folds >> >> froskon folds >> >> mvpmal folds >> >> seabomb folds >> >> DrBuddie folds >> >> Emmary calls 50 >> >> DTown369 folds >> >> The_Sorcerer calls 25 >> >> YOLT1 checks >> >> *** FLOP *** [7h 8d 6s] >> >> The_Sorcerer checks >> >> YOLT1 bets 150 >> >> Emmary calls 150 >> >> The_Sorcerer raises to 4,035, and is all in >> >> YOLT1 calls 2,245, and is all in >> >> Emmary folds >> >> The_Sorcerer shows [7s 8c] >> >> YOLT1 shows [Th 5s] >> >> Uncalled bet of 1,640 returned to The_Sorcerer >> >> *** TURN *** [7h 8d 6s] [4h] >> >> *** RIVER *** [7h 8d 6s 4h] [9c] >> >> The_Sorcerer shows two pair, Eights and Sevens >> >> YOLT1 shows a straight, Ten high >> >> YOLT1 wins the pot (5,090) with a straight, Ten high >> >> *** SUMMARY *** >> >> Total pot 5,090 | Rake 0 >> >> Board: [7h 8d 6s 4h 9c] >> >> Seat 1: YOLT1 (big blind) showed [Th 5s] and won (5,090) with a >> >> straight, >> >> Ten high >> >> Seat 2: the1captain didn't bet (folded) >> >> Seat 3: froskon didn't bet (folded) >> >> Seat 4: mvpmal didn't bet (folded) >> >> Seat 5: seabomb didn't bet (folded) >> >> Seat 6: DrBuddie didn't bet (folded) >> >> Seat 7: Emmary folded on the Flop >> >> Seat 8: DTown369 (button) didn't bet (folded) >> >> Seat 9: The_Sorcerer (small blind) showed [7s 8c] and lost with two >> >> pair, >> >> Eights and Sevens
>> > He saw a way to double up with a double gut shot and hit. He gambled >> > and >> > it paid of. Why are you surprised? >> He coulda been drawing to a chop, and he's getting about 1.2-1
> He saw something and flipped a coin.
It's not a coin flip. Best case 2-1 against Worst case drawing to chop
Downside he loses a cup of coffeee
> upside he doubles up and move on.
Doesn't make him any less a retard.
> Not everyone at that level plays like the 2 has 5 zeros after it.
It's not the buy in. It's the quality of decision (or lack therof)
> Are you saying the retard got fucked again ??? > *** > Tell me, oh shithead, how getting it all in way ahead is being retarded?
You were playing in a low level game and pushed all with hardly anything in the pot hoping for a call from an idiot ... and double up on a 2or3 - 1 chance ... You got your wish ... A retard got called by an idiot ... and the idiot hit his out ...
No strategy at all ... an all in retard move ... with an idiot call ... and you call that poker ???
> Are you saying the retard got fucked again ??? > *** > Tell me, oh shithead, how getting it all in way ahead is being retarded?
You were playing in a low level game and pushed all with hardly anything in the pot hoping for a call from an idiot ... and double up on a 2or3 - 1 chance ... You got your wish ... A retard got called by an idiot ... and the idiot hit his out ... *** Ok, you're an idiot. I pushed all in with 600 in the pot on a draw heavy board where about 16 cards can come off leaving me clueless where I am. In a field of morons who will call an overbet like that with a 9, it's a much better play than raising small.
***
No strategy at all ... an all in retard move ... with an idiot call ... *** Wow, you ARE an idiot. The strategy was the push, moron. *** and you call that poker ??? *** All in way ahead for his stack. Damn right
K9way wrote: > MIND POINTING OUT WHO HAD A "DOUBLE GUT ' SHOT STRAIGHT DRAW ?
I have no idea what the real term for this is, but I have heard it called super open-ended. In that the top end of the draw makes a higher straight than other open enders.
Is it possible to improve you overall win rate, if you were to bet less than all in? For tournaments.
The underlying theory is that the last chips are more valuable than the chips before that etc... A survival strategy.
The other part of the equation. How many 80-20% shots should you take with your whole stack in a tournament? If you are taking too many, are indeed on a tournament level resigning yourself to luck whether you are winning, and indeed the luck may be as pervasive as any other form of luck in the game.
And that indeed, practicing pot control on top of what you are doing would help mitigate the all-ins that you are taking, especially when you are being covered.
The underlying principle is one of gamblers ruin. Which you are running into over and over again. Where you are favorable, sometimes massively, but because you put it on the line so often, that instead of winning your are "paradoxically" losing.
Lastly your poker skills may be dramatically hampered from growth by your exploitation of this mistake of your opponents. It could very well be that at this level the mistake most being made is that your being overcalled in these situations, where the times that you are not busted you're overly rewarded.
That when you go up in level, that you will find that you are getting very little value out of your big hands, because your not being called. So not only are you a covered small stack much of the time, that you're on top of that, not able to take advantage of the "retards", and that you will lose DRAMATICALLY because you never learned the next level of skills going forward, because you think you have the game solved.
> Is it possible to improve you overall win rate, if you were to bet less > than all in? For tournaments.
> The underlying theory is that the last chips are more valuable than the > chips before that etc... A survival strategy.
> The other part of the equation. How many 80-20% shots should you take > with your whole stack in a tournament? If you are taking too many, are > indeed on a tournament level resigning yourself to luck whether you are > winning, and indeed the luck may be as pervasive as any other form of > luck in the game.
> And that indeed, practicing pot control on top of what you are doing > would help mitigate the all-ins that you are taking, especially when you > are being covered.
> The underlying principle is one of gamblers ruin. Which you are running > into over and over again. Where you are favorable, sometimes massively, > but because you put it on the line so often, that instead of winning > your are "paradoxically" losing.
> Lastly your poker skills may be dramatically hampered from growth by > your exploitation of this mistake of your opponents. It could very > well be that at this level the mistake most being made is that your > being overcalled in these situations, where the times that you are not > busted you're overly rewarded.
> That when you go up in level, that you will find that you are getting > very little value out of your big hands, because your not being called. > So not only are you a covered small stack much of the time, that > you're on top of that, not able to take advantage of the "retards", and > that you will lose DRAMATICALLY because you never learned the next level > of skills going forward, because you think you have the game solved.
> Just asking. Is it possible?
Oh Johnny, such a well written and eloquent response, utterly wasted. I'm actually mourning for the time you've spent posting this well thought and to-the-point post. I'd like to thank you for posting it because it's a valuable insight to tournament poker that many people overlook and I appreciate a small reminder of it.
However, for any of it to mean anything to Beldin, he would have to admit that he was wrong or even made a mistake in the hand. The odds of that are far worse than 4 to 1, and consequently, your intelligent post is wasted on the brick wall of learning, inflicted us by the name of "Beldin."
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