Question regarding connecting the Processor Power adapter to a Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3P AMD AM3 Socket (Phenom Processor). The motherboard come with a 2X4 socket ATX_12V_2X4 (8 pin). My Power supply does not have any 2X4 connectors. It has a 2X2 12V for the Processor (4 pins). Do I have the worng PSU? Can I buy an adapter?
mac wrote: > Question regarding connecting the Processor Power adapter to a Gigabyte > GA-MA770T-UD3P AMD AM3 Socket (Phenom Processor). The motherboard > come with a 2X4 socket ATX_12V_2X4 (8 pin). My Power supply does not > have any 2X4 connectors. It has a 2X2 12V for the Processor (4 pins). > Do I have the worng PSU? Can I buy an adapter?
Yes, you can buy a 4pin to 8pin adapter, but that doesn't solve the larger problem of figuring out whether your PS is adequate for your needs or not. Hopefully the PS gurus in here will help you with that question.
For background, according to what I'm reading in the wikipedia (snippages down below at ^1^2) the 'standard' ATX 12V is the P4^1 which you have and the 8 pin is EPS12V^2, so you could say that the 8 pin is associated with heavier duty PSes & mobo requirements. More wires and pins is a way of carrying more juice.
^1 ATX12V 4-pin power connector (also called the P4 power connector). A second connector that goes to the motherboard (in addition to the main 24-pin connector) to supply dedicated power for the processor. For high-end motherboards and processors, more power is required, therefore EPS12V has an 8 pin connector.
^2 Power supplies built to the EPS standard include a 24-pin motherboard power connector and an 8-pin +12V connector. The standard also specifies two additional 4 pin 12V connectors for more power hungry boards (one required on 700W-800W PSUs, both required on 850W+ PSUs) . EPS power supplies are in principle compatible with standard ATX or ATX12V motherboards found in homes and offices but there may be mechanical issues where the 12V connector and in the case of older boards the main connector overhang the sockets.
"mac" <a...@aaa.com> wrote: > Question regarding connecting the Processor Power adapter to a > Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3P AMD AM3 Socket (Phenom Processor). The > motherboard come with a 2X4 socket ATX_12V_2X4 (8 pin). My Power > supply does not have any 2X4 connectors. It has a 2X2 12V for the > Processor (4 pins). Do I have the worng PSU? Can I buy an adapter?
mac wrote: > Question regarding connecting the Processor Power adapter to a Gigabyte > GA-MA770T-UD3P AMD AM3 Socket (Phenom Processor). The motherboard come > with a 2X4 socket ATX_12V_2X4 (8 pin). My Power supply does not have any > 2X4 connectors. It has a 2X2 12V for the Processor (4 pins). Do I have > the worng PSU? Can I buy an adapter?
If you look in the user manual, on page 22, the table for the ATX12V connector, tells you which holes a 2x2 connectors goes in. A 2x2 connector can be used with the 2x4 motherboard connector. Pins 3,4,7,8 take the 2x2, and the shape of the nylon shell ends, helps ensure the correct alignment. (So does the location of the clamp on the connector.) If you wish to further verify you're doing it right, make sure the yellow wires on the 2x2, are contacting the "+12V" pins listed in the following table.
Pin No. Definition 1 GND (Only for 2x4 pin 12V) 2 GND (Only for 2x4 pin 12V) 3 GND <--- black wires go here 3,4,7,8 for 2x2 4 GND <--- black wires go here 3,4,7,8 for 2x2 5 +12V (Only for 2x4 pin 12V) 6 +12V (Only for 2x4 pin 12V) 7 +12V <--- yellow wires go here 3,4,7,8 for 2x2 8 +12V <--- yellow wires go here 3,4,7,8 for 2x2
The connector family used on motherboards, is called Mini-fit Junior by the original manufacturer. The pins take maximum currents related to both the wire gauge used, and the number of adjacent pins. (That is why the 24 pin connector has a lower current rating than the 2x2 connector.) The pins on the 2x2 could be rated anywhere from perhaps 6 amps per pin to 10 amps per pin. We'll assume 6 amps for a conservative answer.
There are two yellow wires on the 2x2 connector. That is a total of 12 amps of ampacity (room for current flow). 12V * 12A = 144 watts. The Vcore converter on the motherboard, converts that power source to a much lower voltage. The Vcore converter might be 90% efficient. (I use that number, purely to illustrate the concept, and I don't look that number up for every motherboard I read about.) On the output of Vcore, we have 144 watts x 0.90 eff = 130 watts at the load, which is the CPU.
It means we can power a 130 watt processor, using a 2x2 connector. If you check the tables of processors, there aren't too many which exceed 130W. (The Phenom II x4 965 is an exception, at 140W.) Now, if you're an overclocker, and you overclock the processor by 50%, then that will use, at minimum, 50% more power (and perhaps a bit more). So if you overclock a 130W processor on your motherboard, you'd want a 2x4 connector on the power supply.
Using adapter cables, from 2x2 to 2x4, serves no purpose. It moves the "burn point", to where the adapter connects to the power supply. So don't even think about adapters. The main benefit of power adapter cables, is for those situations where the motherboard is too far from the power supply.
*******
The quality and capabilities of the power supply are a separate issue. It is one thing, for the cables and pins to have room for 12 amps to flow. The power supply has a rating label on the side of it, and the 12V1 and 12V2 ampere ratings, tell you whether in fact, the power supply can even achieve those peak current flow levels, before conking out.
The combined 12V rating in watts or amps is important, as sometimes there is a lower combined limit, than the individual ratings. I assume the 5VSB is at least 2 amps, and is usually between 2 and 3 amps. 2 amps should be enough, unless you're charging a lot of USB toys off +5VSB.
12V2 is used solely by the processor. That doesn't look like a limitation. If you had a 140W Phenom, (140W/0.90) / 12V = 13 amps. That would be within the 17 amp limit.
The Leadertech documentation suggests there may be two 2x2 connectors. Check to see if they "hinge together" to make a 2x4 connector. You may in fact have a 2x4 connector, and it simply isn't assembled. (My power supply has a connector like that. It is a 2x4 that splits in half, to make a couple of 2x2 connectors. I use the 2x2 on mine, as my processor is 65W.)
Other 12V loads, would go on the 12V1 output. 0.6A per disk drive. 1.5A per CDROM (only while media is spinning in the tray). Fans are approximately 0.5A total estimated. A video card is the single largest consumer, and they can range into the couple hundred watt range. For example, a low end 9600GT might be 12V @ 5A. If you had a single one of those, it would be 0.6+1.5+0.5+5.0=7.6 amps from 12V1. In that example, 7.6 amps loading is less than the 18A limit. You then add the 12V1 and 12V2 currents, 13 + 7.6 equals 20.6 amps, and see if you've exceeded the combined 12V power or current rating.
You can also do a "total watts" calculation. It would be better if you posted your planned hardware, such as video card, than for me to make up more fake examples.
Is AGI a good brand of power supply ? I can only find reference to your supply on the Leadertech site, or on some Chinese languages sites. No idea who actually makes it.
Thanks you for the outstanding explanation - it makes perfect sense. I do in fact have two 2X2 connectors to make a 2X4. Regarding the brand of the PSU (AGI) - It was recommended by the store where I bought all my parts. http://www.digilinkcomputers.com/ Digilink computers. It's a Michigan base business, which has a local tore here in town. I have bought from them before many times and are very reputable.
My system will be (I'm assembling it this saturday - Its for home use - not gaming). Motherboard: GA-MA770T-UD3P AMD AM3 Socket Processor: Phenonm II X4 945 RAM: 4 Gig DDR3 HD: 1 TB Seagate Video: PNY Geforce 9500GT 1024 MB PCI Express Sound: Integrated PSU: IGA 550W DVD RW - Liteon USB Mouse and Keyboard
> mac wrote: >> Question regarding connecting the Processor Power adapter to a Gigabyte >> GA-MA770T-UD3P AMD AM3 Socket (Phenom Processor). The motherboard come >> with a 2X4 socket ATX_12V_2X4 (8 pin). My Power supply does not have any >> 2X4 connectors. It has a 2X2 12V for the Processor (4 pins). Do I have >> the worng PSU? Can I buy an adapter?
> If you look in the user manual, on page 22, the table for the ATX12V > connector, > tells you which holes a 2x2 connectors goes in. A 2x2 connector can be > used > with the 2x4 motherboard connector. Pins 3,4,7,8 take the 2x2, and the > shape > of the nylon shell ends, helps ensure the correct alignment. (So does the > location of the clamp on the connector.) If you wish to further verify > you're > doing it right, make sure the yellow wires on the 2x2, are contacting the > "+12V" pins listed in the following table.
> Pin No. Definition > 1 GND (Only for 2x4 pin 12V) > 2 GND (Only for 2x4 pin 12V) > 3 GND <--- black wires go here 3,4,7,8 for 2x2 > 4 GND <--- black wires go here 3,4,7,8 for 2x2 > 5 +12V (Only for 2x4 pin 12V) > 6 +12V (Only for 2x4 pin 12V) > 7 +12V <--- yellow wires go here 3,4,7,8 for 2x2 > 8 +12V <--- yellow wires go here 3,4,7,8 for 2x2
> The connector family used on motherboards, is called Mini-fit Junior by > the > original manufacturer. The pins take maximum currents related to both the > wire gauge used, and the number of adjacent pins. (That is why the 24 pin > connector has a lower current rating than the 2x2 connector.) The pins on > the 2x2 could be rated anywhere from perhaps 6 amps per pin to 10 amps per > pin. We'll assume 6 amps for a conservative answer.
> There are two yellow wires on the 2x2 connector. That is a total of 12 > amps > of ampacity (room for current flow). 12V * 12A = 144 watts. The Vcore > converter on the motherboard, converts that power source to a much lower > voltage. The Vcore converter might be 90% efficient. (I use that number, > purely to illustrate the concept, and I don't look that number up for > every motherboard I read about.) On the output of Vcore, we have > 144 watts x 0.90 eff = 130 watts at the load, which is the CPU.
> It means we can power a 130 watt processor, using a 2x2 connector. If > you check the tables of processors, there aren't too many which > exceed 130W. (The Phenom II x4 965 is an exception, at 140W.) > Now, if you're an overclocker, and you overclock the processor by 50%, > then that will use, at minimum, 50% more power (and perhaps a bit more). > So if you overclock a 130W processor on your motherboard, you'd want > a 2x4 connector on the power supply.
> Using adapter cables, from 2x2 to 2x4, serves no purpose. It moves > the "burn point", to where the adapter connects to the power supply. > So don't even think about adapters. The main benefit of power adapter > cables, is for those situations where the motherboard is too far > from the power supply.
> *******
> The quality and capabilities of the power supply are a separate issue. > It is one thing, for the cables and pins to have room for 12 amps to > flow. The power supply has a rating label on the side of it, and > the 12V1 and 12V2 ampere ratings, tell you whether in fact, the > power supply can even achieve those peak current flow levels, before > conking out.
> The combined 12V rating in watts or amps is important, as sometimes > there is a lower combined limit, than the individual ratings. I assume > the 5VSB is at least 2 amps, and is usually between 2 and 3 amps. > 2 amps should be enough, unless you're charging a lot of USB toys > off +5VSB.
> 12V2 is used solely by the processor. That doesn't look like a limitation. > If you had a 140W Phenom, (140W/0.90) / 12V = 13 amps. That would be > within the 17 amp limit.
> The Leadertech documentation suggests there may be two 2x2 connectors. > Check to see if they "hinge together" to make a 2x4 connector. You > may in fact have a 2x4 connector, and it simply isn't assembled. > (My power supply has a connector like that. It is a 2x4 that splits > in half, to make a couple of 2x2 connectors. I use the 2x2 on mine, > as my processor is 65W.)
> Other 12V loads, would go on the 12V1 output. 0.6A per disk drive. > 1.5A per CDROM (only while media is spinning in the tray). Fans > are approximately 0.5A total estimated. A video card is the single > largest consumer, and they can range into the couple hundred watt > range. For example, a low end 9600GT might be 12V @ 5A. > If you had a single one of those, it would be 0.6+1.5+0.5+5.0=7.6 > amps from 12V1. In that example, 7.6 amps loading is less than > the 18A limit. You then add the 12V1 and 12V2 currents, 13 + 7.6 > equals 20.6 amps, and see if you've exceeded the combined 12V > power or current rating.
> You can also do a "total watts" calculation. It would be better > if you posted your planned hardware, such as video card, than > for me to make up more fake examples.
> Is AGI a good brand of power supply ? I can only find > reference to your supply on the Leadertech site, or on > some Chinese languages sites. No idea who actually > makes it.
> mac wrote: >> Question regarding connecting the Processor Power adapter to a > Gigabyte >> GA-MA770T-UD3P AMD AM3 Socket (Phenom Processor). The motherboard >> come with a 2X4 socket ATX_12V_2X4 (8 pin). My Power supply does not >> have any 2X4 connectors. It has a 2X2 12V for the Processor (4 pins). >> Do I have the worng PSU? Can I buy an adapter?
> Yes, you can buy a 4pin to 8pin adapter, but that doesn't solve the > larger problem of figuring out whether your PS is adequate for your > needs or not. Hopefully the PS gurus in here will help you with that > question.
> For background, according to what I'm reading in the wikipedia > (snippages down below at ^1^2) the 'standard' ATX 12V is the P4^1 which > you have and the 8 pin is EPS12V^2, so you could say that the 8 pin is > associated with heavier duty PSes & mobo requirements. More wires and > pins is a way of carrying more juice.
> ^1 ATX12V 4-pin power connector (also called the P4 power connector). A > second connector that goes to the motherboard (in addition to the main > 24-pin connector) to supply dedicated power for the processor. For > high-end motherboards and processors, more power is required, therefore > EPS12V has an 8 pin connector.
> ^2 Power supplies built to the EPS standard include a 24-pin motherboard > power connector and an 8-pin +12V connector. The standard also specifies > two additional 4 pin 12V connectors for more power hungry boards (one > required on 700W-800W PSUs, both required on 850W+ PSUs) . EPS power > supplies are in principle compatible with standard ATX or ATX12V > motherboards found in homes and offices but there may be mechanical > issues where the 12V connector and in the case of older boards the main > connector overhang the sockets.
> Thanks you for the outstanding explanation - it makes perfect sense. I > do in fact have two 2X2 connectors to make a 2X4. Regarding the brand > of the PSU (AGI) - It was recommended by the store where I bought all my > parts. http://www.digilinkcomputers.com/ Digilink computers. It's a > Michigan base business, which has a local tore here in town. I have > bought from them before many times and are very reputable.
> My system will be (I'm assembling it this saturday - Its for home use - > not gaming). > Motherboard: GA-MA770T-UD3P AMD AM3 Socket > Processor: Phenonm II X4 945 > RAM: 4 Gig DDR3 > HD: 1 TB Seagate > Video: PNY Geforce 9500GT 1024 MB PCI Express > Sound: Integrated > PSU: IGA 550W > DVD RW - Liteon > USB Mouse and Keyboard
> Thanks, > mac
Interesting. Newegg has two different models of 945, one at 125W and one at 95W. The price is the same and yet one is lower power than the other.
I'll assume 125W. (125W/0.9)/12V = 11.6A from 12V2
The only number I could find for 9500GT was 50W, so we could say 12V @ 4A in round numbers.
12V1 current = 0.6+1.5+0.5 + 4A = 6.6A
Total 12V current is 11.6A + 6.6A = 18.2A
Total power in watts. Mobo power is an estimate, assuming things like a 30W chipset, four DIMMs at 2 watt apiece, plus assorted peripheral chips on the motherboard at 1 watt and so on. There isn't enough similarity amongst motherboard designs, to refine the number. A couple of the other numbers here, are the 5V consumptions of the storage devices.
(12V power) + mobo&RAM + +5VSB + 5V_HDD + 5V_ODD
(12V * 18.2A) + 50W + 10W + 5W + 7.5W = 290.9W
That is an outside number, one you're not likely to see in practice. (You certainly won't see that number while the system is idle in the desktop.) So you're under 550W. The question then is, whether the AGI supply is a real 550W supply or not. I like using the reviews on Newegg, because the bad stuff tends to show its true colors in the review section. If the AGI product isn't reviewed anywhere, and you can't tell what it is equivalent to, then it is harder to judge.
That's an awesome analysis. I'll definitively keep it as an example for a future similar calculation - I don't know if I could totally duplicate it. I'll study it some more. I'll also do a little research on the AGI PSU. It also has another model number HEC-550TW-TF on it . And it says RoHS 2002/96/EC. In the sticker also says Supports nVIDIA SLI & Dual PCI-E. It does make me wonder about the quality too..
> That's an awesome analysis. I'll definitively keep it as an example for > a future similar calculation - I don't know if I could totally > duplicate it. I'll study it some more. I'll also do a little research > on the AGI PSU. It also has another model number HEC-550TW-TF on it . > And it says RoHS 2002/96/EC. In the sticker also says Supports nVIDIA > SLI & Dual PCI-E. It does make me wonder about the quality too..
> Thank you so much. > mac
So that makes it a rebranded HEC/Compucase. HEC (Heroichi) used to make supplies for Antec, then HEC tried their hand at retail marketing. Then, Compucase (an outfit that makes computer cases) enters the picture. I don't know if they bought HEC or HEC bought them.
I have one HEC here, but it is a number of years old. I didn't have a problem with it. But a lot of time has passed, and with corporate changes, sometimes a company goes from making its own, to contracting and buying someone else's stuff.
There are 26 HEC/Compucase models on Newegg right now, and you can check out the reviews on them, and see if their quality has kept up or not. Maybe you'll get lucky, and visually identify your model.
> Question regarding connecting the Processor Power adapter to a Gigabyte > GA-MA770T-UD3P AMD AM3 Socket (Phenom Processor). The motherboard come > with a 2X4 socket ATX_12V_2X4 (8 pin). My Power supply does not have any > 2X4 connectors. It has a 2X2 12V for the Processor (4 pins). Do I have > the worng PSU? Can I buy an adapter? > > Here is the link for the Motherboard: > http://www.gigabyte.us/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?Produc... > My Power Supply is an AGI 550W AGI-U550UB > http://www.leadertechusa.com/product_overview.asp?item=AGQCBAB721 > > Thanks, Mac
Hello...you can find a lot of information on PSU's by searching the UL number and finding out who the certificate really belongs to, and all the units they make for multiple brands
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